Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition • Hacker News Board

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#21

Post by mellosouls » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

The title could be misread as indicating online tuition is not worth the cost generally, which is a different matter.

The article is actually making the fair point that students paying for IRL classes are being ill-served by online replacements with no discount.

It mis-steps though in generalising to making claims more generally about online tuition; a physical university (say) panicked by lockdown into rush-providing online replacements for normal service is hardly likely to be able to match the quality of service of (decent) institutions that specialise in online learning.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#22

Post by mumblemumble » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

otoburb wrote: post #20

mumblemumble wrote: post #12

Online courses lack class discussions that are key to making courses engaging. This sounds absolutely nothing like how things worked in the online degree I received. I don't know what is typical elsewhere. I will say, from watching my son's Zoom-based classroom sessions, that Zoom seems to be almost specifically designed to yield a poor classroom experience. For reasons that I believe would also apply to Skype, Googl…

Please share the meeting platform used so that everybody else can start looking at it and perhaps lobby their schools or school boards. My kids' schools used both Zoom and Google Meets, and schools converged back to Zoom. If there's truly something better would love to hear and share!

Adobe Connect

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#23

Post by Swizec » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

siculars wrote: post #11

stblack wrote: post #8

Schools still have a very large proportion of their fixed costs to cover. Schools and their lecturers need to invest in perfecting onlive delivery. Therefore it's not particularly realistic to expect schools to chop their top-line so soon. This is clearly a transitory and uncertain period. With time, possibly less time than schools hope, they will be forced to adjust prices downward.

You adjust for that by increasing number of enrolled students. Not by pretending you are delivering the same product.

Many universities’ core product is exclusivity and hard-to-get-into status signaling. Increasing enrollment disrupts that value.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#24

Post by voisin » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

mumblemumble wrote: post #22

otoburb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please share the meeting platform used so that everybody else can start looking at it and perhaps lobby their schools or school boards. My kids' schools used both Zoom and Google Meets, and schools converged back to Zoom. If there's truly something better would love to hear and share!

Adobe Connect

What was the difference that yielded the positive experience?

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#25

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

otoburb wrote: post #20

mumblemumble wrote: post #12

Online courses lack class discussions that are key to making courses engaging. This sounds absolutely nothing like how things worked in the online degree I received. I don't know what is typical elsewhere. I will say, from watching my son's Zoom-based classroom sessions, that Zoom seems to be almost specifically designed to yield a poor classroom experience. For reasons that I believe would also apply to Skype, Googl…

Please share the meeting platform used so that everybody else can start looking at it and perhaps lobby their schools or school boards. My kids' schools used both Zoom and Google Meets, and schools converged back to Zoom. If there's truly something better would love to hear and share!

[deleted]

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#26

Post by CivBase » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

electriclove wrote: post #14

mumblemumble wrote: post #12

Online courses lack class discussions that are key to making courses engaging. This sounds absolutely nothing like how things worked in the online degree I received. I don't know what is typical elsewhere. I will say, from watching my son's Zoom-based classroom sessions, that Zoom seems to be almost specifically designed to yield a poor classroom experience. For reasons that I believe would also apply to Skype, Googl…

What meeting platform did your school use? Which school?

My university was using Adobe Connect almost a decade ago. It is way better than video call apps like Zoom.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#27

Post by rb2k_ » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

stblack wrote: post #8

Schools still have a very large proportion of their fixed costs to cover. Schools and their lecturers need to invest in perfecting onlive delivery. Therefore it's not particularly realistic to expect schools to chop their top-line so soon. This is clearly a transitory and uncertain period. With time, possibly less time than schools hope, they will be forced to adjust prices downward.

Don't a lot of the bigger schools have billions of dollars in endowments that can easily cover fixed costs with their returns?

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#28

Post by Ijumfs » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:25 PM UTC

I just have to say, that web site has some of the most offensive features. In-article tables of links to other stories, ads up the wazoo, a huge sort of task bar thing that swoops down. What are they thinking? I didn't even read the article. I don't have TIME for sites like that any more.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#29

Post by game_the0ry » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:25 PM UTC

A couple of years ago, I was looking into MOOCs for tech education, Udacity's nano degree in particular. I remember stumbling across a video on Youtube where some Udacity folks were discussing the merits of online education with college professors and admins.

What stood out to me was how vehemently the college folks were against online education. They were visibly livid - there was no way substituting a live class room environment with online education could be as effective, they shouted. They were obviously threatened - they did not want the world they were so comfortable with to change.

Now they are singing a different tune once they don't have a choice - not only are colleges embracing online classes, they are trying to justify full cost for it too.

College students heading into the fall semester should take a gap year. I know I would.

Re: Online classes are not worth cost of full tuition

#30

Post by mumblemumble » Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 2:26 PM UTC

voisin wrote: post #24

mumblemumble wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobe Connect

What was the difference that yielded the positive experience?

To an approximation, the entire user interface and everything about how it worked.

Edit: A more wordy response, since I assume the downvote implies that wasn't satisfying --

It has all the key elements - video chat, screen sharing, whiteboarding, etc., but they've all been arranged in such a different way that it's just impossible to single anything out in particular. The best I could do is explain it by analogy: Most software is designed to work best as either an online equivalent to a conference room, or an online equivalent to a lecture hall. But, IRL, a classroom isn't quite like a conference room or a lecture hall. Depending on the type of classroom, the physical differences might be subtle, but they are pervasive.