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Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

businessinsider.com

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Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#141

Post by zazerbayev »

I think this is a great idea.

You must ask yourself why the government is able to retain word-class managers and jurists despite stiff competition from the private sector. James Comey was an executive at the world's largest hedge fund, why did he quit for a government job where he was making 100x less? Any federal judge could've made a fortune in corporate law, why didn't they choose to? Because there is a sense of prestige and national duty about their posts. Creating a similar status for technologists in government would go a long way towards recruiting and retaining top talent.

If we want to convince people that being a government engineer is worthwhile and respected, starting with students seems reasonable.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#142

Post by pb7 »

p1esk wrote: post #136
pb7 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very odd statement indeed. I have never heard anything even remotely corroborating this. In fact (highly anecdotally, take it as entertainment at best), I have read that public opinion holds NSA's technical capabilities in high esteem but in reality, the talent is vastly below that of the top consumer tech companies because most tech employees would never contribute to the type of work the government does.

I thought the dominant public opinion is government agencies are staffed with mediocre engineers. Not even because of any moral concerns, just because of bureaucracy and low pay.

Agreed, but we still think of the CIA and NSA on a technical level as being capable of unparalleled surveillance, crypto cracking, and other general hackery and engineering to maintain its power. Perhaps that's part of the propaganda. With that said, I imagine much of that is possible with backdoors to mass consumer data like Facebook which is actually collected via ingenious (but unethical) talent in Silicon Valley.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#143

Post by vmception »

Shebanator wrote: post #114
vmception wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the DC area computer science programs feed right into the NSA and defense. Which is funny because Silicon Valley companies won't think candidates from those schools are that interesting, while simultaneously thinking that the intelligence and defense has better programmers. People are people.

Who in Silicon Valley thinks that? I've never heard anyone say it in my 30+ years here (until now).

Allow me to rephrase, people believe the NSA has superior technology with mystical capabilities. Who do you think that develops that stuff, where do those people come from?

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#144

Post by mturmon »

pb7 wrote: post #130
Shebanator wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who in Silicon Valley thinks that? I've never heard anyone say it in my 30+ years here (until now).

Very odd statement indeed. I have never heard anything even remotely corroborating this. In fact (highly anecdotally, take it as entertainment at best), I have read that public opinion holds NSA's technical capabilities in high esteem but in reality, the talent is vastly below that of the top consumer tech companies because most tech employees would never contribute to the type of work the government does.

I hear you, and appreciate your caveat ("highly anecdotally"). But consider a couple of data points:

-- KH-11 satellite, and presumed successors

-- Stuxnet

-- Utah data center (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center)

-- The rather enormous intelligence budget that allows all kinds of creativity

The above indicates that there must be some corners of these agencies that are extremely technically skilled, and able to do real stuff with breathtaking ambition. Given the budget, these "corners" might be pretty big, and attract some excellent talent.

Those that know, aren't talking, and those talking (ahem!), don't know.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#145

Post by Upvoter33 »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #127
Upvoter33 wrote: post #45

"Palo Alto-based Stanford University ... and MIT have historically been the primary talent pools for the tech industry" This is far from true. If you look at the total workforce in tech, the majority is by far from much larger, public schools, like Berkeley, Michigan, Illinois, Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, etc., etc. MIT and Stanford have had amazing great people, but they are far from the "primary" source of talent…

Yeah, it's honestly insulting copy, and ignores other North American schools like Waterloo that make up a disproportionate part of big tech.

(should have included all the great Canadian universities in the list too, my apologies ... not that I included all the great US universities)

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#146

Post by Jtsummers »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #55
Jtsummers wrote: post #39

Interesting. I don't see the point, though. The issue with the US government and software is not a lack of talent (within the country, or even within the government itself). But a poor structuring and assigning of responsibilities and a severely risk-averse culture, paired with the overreaction of a risk-accepting culture occasionally showing up and fucking it all. There is, or will be, sufficient talent in the US to…

> The issue with the US government and software is not a lack of talent (within the country, or even within the government itself). But a poor structuring and assigning of responsibilities and a severely risk-averse culture, paired with the overreaction of a risk-accepting culture occasionally showing up and fucking it all. Bureaucracy in a nutshell. I wonder if there is a single country the western world where it is…

Bureaucracy will never be efficient. It is resilient and can survive. It is an organism. It presses itself into the cracks and crevices of society until it seems like the essential material composing our structure. But it's not, it's just slime mold.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#147

Post by 908B64B197 »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #127
Upvoter33 wrote: post #45

"Palo Alto-based Stanford University ... and MIT have historically been the primary talent pools for the tech industry" This is far from true. If you look at the total workforce in tech, the majority is by far from much larger, public schools, like Berkeley, Michigan, Illinois, Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, etc., etc. MIT and Stanford have had amazing great people, but they are far from the "primary" source of talent…

Yeah, it's honestly insulting copy, and ignores other North American schools like Waterloo that make up a disproportionate part of big tech.

I had to lookup the school. Maybe it's better known in some regional markets? It's behind a few names I was familiar with in Canada. [0]

[0] https://cwur.org/2019-2020.php

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#148

Post by zjaffee »

zazerbayev wrote: post #141

I think this is a great idea. You must ask yourself why the government is able to retain word-class managers and jurists despite stiff competition from the private sector. James Comey was an executive at the world's largest hedge fund, why did he quit for a government job where he was making 100x less? Any federal judge could've made a fortune in corporate law, why didn't they choose to? Because there is a sense of p…

I think it's more complicated than that, all of these roles come with substantial amounts of near unilateral executive power that can impact the way the country is run for decades to come.

Even all of the existing US government tech posts like the USDS and 18F are ultimately there purely to service the needs of a bureaucratic agency and their particular management.

For a technology specific role to have the same level of prestige as someone on the federal bench or leading the FBI, they'd need to be giving them unilateral regulatory powers over the broader technology industry in the country.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#149

Post by pb7 »

mturmon wrote: post #144
pb7 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very odd statement indeed. I have never heard anything even remotely corroborating this. In fact (highly anecdotally, take it as entertainment at best), I have read that public opinion holds NSA's technical capabilities in high esteem but in reality, the talent is vastly below that of the top consumer tech companies because most tech employees would never contribute to the type of work the government does.

I hear you, and appreciate your caveat ("highly anecdotally"). But consider a couple of data points: -- KH-11 satellite, and presumed successors -- Stuxnet -- Utah data center ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center ) -- The rather enormous intelligence budget that allows all kinds of creativity The above indicates that there must be some corners of these agencies that are extremely technically skilled, and…

Can't do anything but agree. The intelligence budget, as you said, is enormous so there will certainly be things that come out of it that would be shaky business decisions to even attempt in the private sector.

For one, GPS was created by the DoD and I am still blown away that it is so good, accessible, and free for consumer use.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#150

Post by bumby »

ojnabieoot wrote: post #79
bumby wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends what percentage of a college education you ascribe to "vocational skills" and what amount is "signalling". The Morrill Land-Grant Act was, in part, a response for the need for new skills of an industrialized economy. However, if you believe schools are mostly about credentials and signalling, online learning institutes often have a large accreditation hurdle. E.g., it's generally preferred to have an MIT d…

> E.g., it's generally preferred to have an MIT degree rather than a list of MIT MOOCs taken because there is a certain amount of elite signalling that comes with the degree even if the skills learned are the exact same From my perspective, it is also much preferable to have an actual degree from Plymouth State University, or even an online degree from Southern New Hampshire University, than a MOOC "degree" from MIT,…

You are right and thank you for clarifying. Skills may only be equivalent “in theory”.

In my experience, this even holds true for the same degree within the same institution across different timelines. There’s other pressures (financial, political, etc.) that can drive rigor and curriculum to change. That is at least part of why accreditation is important; it’s supposed to provide some third part vetting that the product is meeting minimum standards. (Again, in theory).

I think it will get much more interesting if online courses can fix the quality/accreditation disparity. With colleges no longer having a monopoly on education that’s still their strongest chip to play

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