Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university • Hacker News Board

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#121

Post by bsanr2 » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 8:37 PM UTC

knzhou wrote: post #60

brlewis wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a school rejects qualified applicants because there are too many, doesn't that indicate a shortage of that kind of school?

No, because school prestige is a positional good. This is like saying you can address the shortage of Olympic gold medals by just manufacturing tons of them.

People don't go to these universities for prestige's sake, but for what prestige gets them. It's not really about the gold medal (for the vast majority), it's about being an elite athlete (i.e., being generally healthy and physically capable of impressive feats) and having the security to practice the discipline you love. Knowing that, you would build a network of schools that meet the full need of potential elite athletes, rather than rely on a handful of clubs and coaches. Which is exactly what we (and China, and the Soviet Union) did.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#122

Post by brlewis » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 8:37 PM UTC

knzhou wrote: post #60

brlewis wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a school rejects qualified applicants because there are too many, doesn't that indicate a shortage of that kind of school?

No, because school prestige is a positional good. This is like saying you can address the shortage of Olympic gold medals by just manufacturing tons of them.

People derive value from a higher education beyond just prestige. A 100% prestige item like a medal is different.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#123

Post by thephyber » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #90

kxyvr wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not entirely true, but the devil is in the details. As an example, the Federal government employs thousands of physicians at the VA and, depending on specialty, they are paid significantly more than this. Last time I checked, they capped out at $400k: https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/2020/PhysicianDentist/PayTables_... Anyway, the point is that the federal government can and does pay significantly more than the GS…

I remember a couple departments (including the NSA) complaining about the federal cap when it came to some IT projects, so I'm not sure it is a sure deal to get past that cap. The VA is a whole other land of bureaucracy that plays by its own rules.

The NSA and handfuls of other departments have figured out how to effectively use contractors (who are paid handsomely above that federal pay cap).

That's separate from the discussion of what these perverse incentives (eg. pay more to mercenaries than to lifelong government servants) do to morale, capabilities, and institutional knowledge. It gets far worse when the president casually says that we should just fire emergency specialists and suggest we can hire them back on short notice in the middle of an emergency.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#124

Post by ghaff » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 8:43 PM UTC

pvg wrote: post #98

tehabe wrote: post #57

I remember a story that Leland Stanford asked what is needed to found a university and the answer was 200 million dollars. What they didn't tell him, that it also takes 200 hundred years. Universities are a longterm project, if a university is good or not, is something you don't really realise while you are there but when you are finished and try to use your knowledge.

Stanford isn't 200 years old, neither is Berkeley. Many UC campuses are a lot younger, UCSC was founded in 1965.

Even in the East a lot of universities aren't that old. A lot of well known institutions postdate the Civil War and those aren't 200 years old yet.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#125

Post by thephyber » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #39

Interesting. I don't see the point, though. The issue with the US government and software is not a lack of talent (within the country, or even within the government itself). But a poor structuring and assigning of responsibilities and a severely risk-averse culture, paired with the overreaction of a risk-accepting culture occasionally showing up and fucking it all. There is, or will be, sufficient talent in the US to…

While these issues exist, we should look to the countries that have successfully overcome them and shamelessly copy their successful strategies.

The US government already does really well at training people for the military, both leaders and fresh high school grads.

Personally, I think we need to stop passing 2000+ bills into law and instead give our technocrats some high level requirements that they can figure out themselves (hopefully in more of an agile than waterfall way). Assigning a technical person micromanaged requirements written by politicians and lobbyist lawyers will never be an appealing or successful formula.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#126

Post by jb775 » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 8:57 PM UTC

> would ideally produce graduates imbued with a sense of government duty.

I'm not sure this is the best selling point to attract a young & diverse student body, given current world events.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#127

Post by akhilcacharya » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 8:59 PM UTC

Upvoter33 wrote: post #45

"Palo Alto-based Stanford University ... and MIT have historically been the primary talent pools for the tech industry" This is far from true. If you look at the total workforce in tech, the majority is by far from much larger, public schools, like Berkeley, Michigan, Illinois, Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, etc., etc. MIT and Stanford have had amazing great people, but they are far from the "primary" source of talent…

Yeah, it's honestly insulting copy, and ignores other North American schools like Waterloo that make up a disproportionate part of big tech.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#128

Post by mensetmanusman » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

vsskanth wrote: post #3

I've always wondered why mega billionaires from this era such as Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Mark Zuckerberg etc. haven't built universities like Stanford, Duke, Cornell etc. - all started by monopolists from the previous era. I guess Eric Schmidt would be the first one

Yes, we need more medical schools for example. We have way more students interested in medicine than available spots in school/residencies.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#129

Post by akhilcacharya » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 9:02 PM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #93

vsskanth wrote: post #3

I've always wondered why mega billionaires from this era such as Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Mark Zuckerberg etc. haven't built universities like Stanford, Duke, Cornell etc. - all started by monopolists from the previous era. I guess Eric Schmidt would be the first one

We got a Trump University. Does that count? /s Not to point out the obvious, but 2 of your examples never bothered to stay in undergrad university long enough to get a degree and they managed to succeed beyond all of their contemporaries. Perhaps it says something about our current university system/paradigm that the current wealthy have chosen not to support this route. Or maybe it says more about the Gilded Age rob…

Overall I liked the Build Stuff article, but the idea that there's a lack of capacity is incredibly silly. It's not difficult to get into a Cal State school, UC Merced or my alma mater for instance.

Re: Eric Schmidt is working to launch a university

#130

Post by pb7 » Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

Shebanator wrote: post #114

vmception wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the DC area computer science programs feed right into the NSA and defense. Which is funny because Silicon Valley companies won't think candidates from those schools are that interesting, while simultaneously thinking that the intelligence and defense has better programmers. People are people.

Who in Silicon Valley thinks that? I've never heard anyone say it in my 30+ years here (until now).

Very odd statement indeed. I have never heard anything even remotely corroborating this. In fact (highly anecdotally, take it as entertainment at best), I have read that public opinion holds NSA's technical capabilities in high esteem but in reality, the talent is vastly below that of the top consumer tech companies because most tech employees would never contribute to the type of work the government does.