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‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

commoncog.com

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Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#81
Buy this autodead account today! You can write whatever the fuck you fucking want a few fucking times a day and nobody will fucking care. Not only they won't be fucking able to downvote you, you will fucking stay in HN's fucking memory for fucking ever!

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE:

This is the story of the day when Andrw Cuomo got fucked in the ass by Gavin Newsom in the nude beach. Andrew got a boner on the view of Andrew's ass in a wet speedo. Now there is really nothing funny about this. Andrew is so fucking bad at his porn site (fuck you Gavin!) that he started doing random porn, so not just any random porn in any time period. This is what makes him so fucking bad. And you look at how fucking gross a man he is with this big dick. And you think your dick was going to be bigger than it is now. Anyway, Andrew then got a huge boner on in a wet speedo. Seriously! And now his ass is getting better by the minute and his cock is going to be bigger than it isThis is the story of the day when Andrw Cuomo got fucked in the ass by Gavin Newsom in the nude beach. Andrew got a boner on the view of Andrew's ass in a wet speedo. Now there is really nothing funny about this. Andrew is so fucking bad at his porn site (fuck you Gavin!) that he started doing random porn, so not just any random porn in any time period. This is what makes him so fucking bad. And you look at how fucking gross a man he is with this big dick. And you think your dick was going to be bigger than it is now. Anyway, Andrew then got a huge boner on in a wet speedo. Seriously! And now his ass is getting better by the minute and his cock is going to be bigger than it is now. I can't even begin to explain the fucking horrible state of Andrew's cock. Oh Jesus fucking Andrew! His hands are so incredibly heavy, you can hardly even see his fingers. Andrew doesn't even know how long it takes him to cum, but he can now, thanks to his huge boner. It sucks! And now the fucking thing starts to fucking hit. Andrew is so fucking fucking bad at his porn site (fuck you now. I can't even begin to explain the fucking horrible state of Andrew's cock. Oh Jesus fucking Andrew! His hands are so incredibly heavy, you can hardly even see his fingers. Andrew doesn't even know how long it takes him to cum, but he can now, thanks to his huge boner. It sucks! And now the fucking thing starts to fucking hit. Andrew is so fucking fucking bad at his porn site (fuck you fucking Gavin!) that he started doing random porn, so not just any random porn in any time period

Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#82
This is such a strange article. The tldr is "Strong opinions weakly held doesn't work because people don't do it." Then the author makes some pretty strong opinions about how that's not how the brain works. I also believe that he's talking about two different ideas.

The first idea: having strong opinions but they aren't held strongly.

I have never read Saffo's work or even heard of these people here, but this tactic described here is something I use frequently and has been very successful for me as a scientist and is what many other scientists I know do. The key issue of his complaint is that people do not hold their ideas weakly enough.

Here's how I see it. Every opinion I have is just wrong. You cannot have all the data and all the relevant facts, so no matter what conclusion you make it is incomplete. The question is just "how wrong." If it is a little wrong, no worries, but if it is a lot wrong, big worries. The strength of your opinion should be proportional to this evidence. Essentially we're all making Fermi estimates, but as time goes on they become better and better. But that doesn't mean you aren't possibly missing some piece of key information. So you should always be open to changing your opinion. You can also hold an opinion strongly but change it with updating evidence. If you don't update your opinion to account for new evidence you are just a bad and stubborn scientist.

Second idea: method for developing good ideas

The second idea is about building up, tearing down, and repeating the process. Teams I've been on have used this method successfully to develop new theories and new products. You don't have to account for everything but it provides a good baseline. This model development really only is in the initial stages of development. You use it to figure out what to test and probe. Before you start a million dollar experiment you sure better have some good ideas and explanations for why you're doing what you're doing. This is essentially creating a red and blue team. You can do this as a group or you can do this individually (harder because you have to accept cognitive dissonance). This adversarial process can be highly successful in creating good conclusions (Hell, this is analogous to what a GAN does). The issues are when someone is really stubborn about their conclusions. But the big reason this works is because when you're submitting a proposal you've already answered basically any question anyone can ask of you. This is because a reviewer SHOULD be trying to find reasons to reject your proposal because you don't want to waste money.

So how this works in the real world is that I develop opinions based on the evidence that I have. I stick to my guns because I didn't form these opinions willy nilly, even with a lot of self doubt (focus on the adversarial benefit and it is okay to be wrong). (And the key part) When someone presents new and compelling evidence you update your model. But it is perfectly acceptable to determine if this evidence is irrelevant or an outlier. I do know this is hard for many people but it isn't that hard if you just accept the relativity of wrong [1] as a fundamental principle. In my undergrad studying experimental physics it is hounded into you to account for error of your measuring tools. The next logical conclusion is to try to account for the error from your most important measuring tool, you. If you accept that you aren't perfect, can't have perfect knowledge (i.e. "The map is not the territory"), this is not that hard. But then again, I'm considered weird, so I'm completely open to being wrong.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_problem

[1] https://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.ht...

Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#83

My take on "strong opinions, weakly held:" It's about combating your own confirmation bias by being willing to do the work of re-examining your conclusions in the light of new evidence. It's hard to do b/c we get emotionally invested, and also because once you make a conclusion an assumption, it becomes implicit & fades into the background -- so it's harder to question. On the flip side, it's also about trusting your…

Honestly I DON'T trust my own reasoning. I can do this adversarial process as described in this article on my own, but that's incomplete. People outside of me have information and ways to view things that I don't. Others work as a discriminator and you update your opinions and views as more information comes in and challenges your own ideas. But it is because I don't trust my own reasoning that I read textbooks, seek out experts, and try to get as many views as possible, because no one has the complete picture.

Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#84
Honestly I rarely remember the full details of why I chose a particular tech. I did the deep research, picked what I believed to be the best tool, implemented and deployed it and now that tool is my baseline.

If you asked me a couple years later “why the hell did you chose that?!” I probably couldn’t give you many details that formed my opinion originally and couldn’t vociferously defend it by arguing minutiae of spec sheets. But I do know if you want to sell me on something new its gotta beat that baseline tool, not whatever opinions I might have had at the time of choosing.

Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#85
There is an entire industry devoted to giving people strong opinions about stuff they have not researched themselves.

They hide behind the false idea that people are unable to evaluate evidence. They will chew it for us. As proof of this, they offer up endless anecdotes of others believing things that the viewer is really sure are either true or false. The most effective 'bias hacks' are easily shown to be false; all that matters is that the viewer believe that "other" people hold that opinion.

A real test is who is willing to discuss it without getting emotional and derailing. The side that needs insulation does that for a reason.

Gaming confirmation bias is perhaps the 2nd most effective tool used to manipulate mass psychology.

Propaganda and Manipulation: How mass media engineers and distorts our perceptions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo5gPG72KM

Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#86

I perhaps haven't been using the phrase as originally intended, but I've always used the phrase "strong opinions, loosely held" when it comes to hiring and building a team, and I've found it incredibly useful. The "strong opinions" part for me means hiring someone who not just has a lot of experience on some topic or technology, but they understand it at a very deep level. The strong opinions come from a place of per…

We recently hired somebody who had this on their resume:

"I understand the wins and pitfalls of Agile methodology".

I mean, how can you go past that - for succinctly describing a pragmatic view of the world and showing real hard-won battle scars at the same time!

Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#87
What I like to do is to just just put out provocative views that I don't necessarily hold, just to see what happens.

If there's something epistemologically wrong with them, some smart person will probably correct you, for free.

If there's something emotionally wrong with them, some indignant person will probably chastise you.

Either dimension is important.

Message boards are good places to do this. Always keep in mind:

"Communication occurs only between equals"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celine%27s_laws#Celine's_Secon...

Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#88

Paul Saffo writes, "I will force myself to make a tentative forecast based on the information available, and then systematically tear it apart." That's similar in spirit to scientific method: Formulate a hypothesis and then set out to disprove it. (Overly simplified, of course.) So, there's definitely something here. But in my experience, the phrase "Strong Opinions, Weakly Held" is mostly just used to excuse bad beh…

> That's similar in spirit to scientific method

Yes! I think that science also demonstrates how Bayesianism, the author's proposed remedy, misses the point somewhat.

What probability do I put on my belief in quantum mechanics? Zero! It has to be wrong, because it doesn't account for gravity. On the other hand, I'd bet on it for every question it can answer.

Scientific theories are the strongest opinions of all. If you can imagine how the laws of physics, the antiquity of Earth, or natural selection could possibly be wrong, you don't understand them. But, historically, those theories replaced previous theories, which were strongly accepted in their day, and did turn out to be wrong.

There is no way that some theories could possibly be wrong, but it's almost certain that some of those theories are wrong. This is about a deeper type of uncertainty than probability can describe.

Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#89
post #84

Honestly I rarely remember the full details of why I chose a particular tech. I did the deep research, picked what I believed to be the best tool, implemented and deployed it and now that tool is my baseline. If you asked me a couple years later “why the hell did you chose that?!” I probably couldn’t give you many details that formed my opinion originally and couldn’t vociferously defend it by arguing minutiae of spe…

Architecture Decision Records (ADRs) are intended to help with that:

https://adr.github.io/

https://github.com/joelparkerhenderson/architecture_decision...

https://github.com/joelparkerhenderson/architecture_decision...

They're overkill for small personal projects but can be helpful in big teams because it won't just be you wondering, “why the hell did they choose that?”.

Re: ‘Strong Opinions, Weakly Held’ Doesn't Work That Well

#90
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found that in software that is wrong. If you want to succeed in software you need to do what is most popular which largely follows innate human behavior. Unlike many other professions there is no licensing, accredidation, or common ethic which means there is no standard baseline of competence. This is visually explained when thinking about the difference between success and capability and then viewing that dif…

Free Software involves both licensing and ethics.

Parent poster clearly meant licensing in the sense of accreditation for the people involved.

I.e. there is no formal barrier to entry, which is great on the one hand, but it also means that there are pretty unqualified developers out there.

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