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Windows on Raspberry

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Re: Windows on Raspberry

#101

Post by 1996 »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #100
TheRealPomax wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you discover it's an illegally sold volume license copy and the volume license gets voided. Fun times, fun times.

Does this still happen? I bought my Win10 Pro key from a grey market site for like $10, so I figure it's likely an illegally sold volume license copy. Yeah, I totally acknowledge that it could get voided, but I know several other people who have bought their Windows key from these types of sites, and none have ever had a problem.

And in the worst case, buy another.

As a customer, the question of the legality of the license key is not my concern.

I purchased it, Microsoft checked it, while knowing my IP address, and decided it was good to go. The fault is theirs: if they don't want volume keys to work outside some markets, add some limitation like geolocalization.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#102

Post by fomine3 »

asveikau wrote: post #91
jfkebwjsbx wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a C API but a lot of code make assumptions about how things are laid out, which need fixing. There is also a lot of software for which the source is not available anymore.

I disagree that the first point is major. amd64 has been a thing for a long time. Compilers and kernel implementations have also changed, so x86 windows has been a moving target as well. Will people need to test and possibly debug after their recompile? Sure. Will a lot of such code work fine on the first try? Also yes.

Apps for x86 made by old compiler are still popular on Windows ecosystem due to its great compatibility.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#103

Post by [deleted] »

numpad0 wrote: post #64
BlahGod420 wrote: post #2

Does anyone have more experience with Windows on IoT devices in general? I'm curious about this - it seems like it could be a real game changer in general for IoT. But if it is already available and not actually doing much game changing, I'd be curious to know why.

Could you elaborate a bit on why do you think full Windows on IoT is a game changer... I think it’ll drive up unit cost by few hundred dollars on top of tenfold degradation in experience, so my gut feeling is it’s completely disconnected from reality. That said Microsoft seemed to think the way you think at least at one point, so you’re not alone at all, and it’s interesting where the misunderstanding come from.

[deleted]

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#104

Post by fomine3 »

BlahGod420 wrote: post #2

Does anyone have more experience with Windows on IoT devices in general? I'm curious about this - it seems like it could be a real game changer in general for IoT. But if it is already available and not actually doing much game changing, I'd be curious to know why.

Windows IoT is basically renamed from Windows Embedded.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#105

Post by ss3000 »

rowanG077 wrote: post #24
pndy wrote: post #22

Wouldn't be that still kinda limited to what Microsoft Store provides in terms of software for everyday use? Because from what I remember, that translation feature on Windows which minces x86 to ARM is still away from being finished. I also wonder - which perhaps might sound bit naiive, if is there a chance that ARM will enter on PCs and we'll see combined architecture motherboards or at least some daughterboards wit…

The translation feature that minces x86 to ARM is done. x64 is still in the works.

Curious if you have a source on the x64 part I can read up more about?

Mainly wondering if I buy an ARM Windows device today, is it just a matter of upgrading Windows somewhere down the line for x64 support? Or will I have to shell out for brand new hardware?

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#106

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

1996 wrote: post #101
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this still happen? I bought my Win10 Pro key from a grey market site for like $10, so I figure it's likely an illegally sold volume license copy. Yeah, I totally acknowledge that it could get voided, but I know several other people who have bought their Windows key from these types of sites, and none have ever had a problem.

And in the worst case, buy another. As a customer, the question of the legality of the license key is not my concern. I purchased it, Microsoft checked it, while knowing my IP address, and decided it was good to go. The fault is theirs: if they don't want volume keys to work outside some markets, add some limitation like geolocalization.

> And in the worst case, buy another.

That would basically be my plan.

If the second key got revoked, THEN I might consider buying a legitimate one.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#107

Post by BlahGod420 »

skohan wrote: post #71
numpad0 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate a bit on why do you think full Windows on IoT is a game changer... I think it’ll drive up unit cost by few hundred dollars on top of tenfold degradation in experience, so my gut feeling is it’s completely disconnected from reality. That said Microsoft seemed to think the way you think at least at one point, so you’re not alone at all, and it’s interesting where the misunderstanding come from.

Yeah I also find this take confusing. The main USP for Windows is that it runs proprietary software which has been captured through vendor lock-in. Even if you are somebody who just likes windows for some reason, I'm not sure what the value-add would be for a machine with no UI

I am thinking about how a machine might expose a UI to an AR viewer of some kind. So, the scenario is: you throw on a pair of AR glasses and open the network-viewing app. I imagine being able to see UIs for thermostats, media players, audio equipment, etc. I suspect a Windows IoT device might get one closer to such a goal? Maybe not?

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#108

Post by skohan »

BlahGod420 wrote: post #107
skohan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I also find this take confusing. The main USP for Windows is that it runs proprietary software which has been captured through vendor lock-in. Even if you are somebody who just likes windows for some reason, I'm not sure what the value-add would be for a machine with no UI

I am thinking about how a machine might expose a UI to an AR viewer of some kind. So, the scenario is: you throw on a pair of AR glasses and open the network-viewing app. I imagine being able to see UIs for thermostats, media players, audio equipment, etc. I suspect a Windows IoT device might get one closer to such a goal? Maybe not?

How would a windows device be closer to that goal? All you would need to make it work is some kind of standardized protocol for how IOT devices advertise data and controls.

The only thing Windows would "do better" would be adding layers of proprietary software and telemetry which would probably reduce performance and make it harder to work with.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#109

Post by vardump »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #98
vardump wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, you don't get GPIO pins on a minipc, but given that you can just buy a $10 data acquisition module that connects via USB, and that you can talk to using UART... that's hardly a problem? Bandwidth for USB GPIO: 8 kHz if you're lucky and there are no other devices on the same controller. Bandwidth for the direct GPIO: up to tens of MHz.

So, not exactly a problem for anyone who wants to use a raspi but also windows? If you need MHz of GPIO speed, you're basically in arduino land now, and raspi+win or a minipc+win doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But hey, you can you also just connect an arduino to the minipc and get the best of both worlds.

You can achieve MHz GPIO speed with RPi running Raspbian. There are FIFOs and DMA.

The days of bitbanging are long since gone.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#110

Post by TheRealPomax »

duskwuff wrote: post #44
TheRealPomax wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because bootcamp "conveniently" doesn't give Windows the same level of control that MacOS gets when it comes to running the fans. Nothing related to actual cpu utilization.

Windows doesn't control fan speeds on native Windows systems either. At best, it's handled by vendor drivers. Often, it's handled by SMM interrupts.

No, but on native systems you don't get Bootcamp Utilities installed, which makes the two setups rather different stories. A choice was made not to give Windows reduced capabilities, despite making sure that Windows gets augmented to work with your specific machine's hardware.
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