'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#221

Post by whatshisface » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #80

ctdonath wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. They think they're voting for the good policies and actions. We can legitimately disagree over the good/bad of policies and actions. Is instituting/increasing minimum wage: providing a livable income for those at the bottom? or denying jobs to those at the bottom (being unable to produce >= $MINWAGE)? Good/bad of the topic seems obvious, yet differing views are widely held.

I have spoken to people who have admitted their racist ideologies and motivations for voting. And I’ve interacted with people who knowingly vote for their own economic interests at the expense of society’s interests because they fundamentally believe they should take whatever they can get. The latter example especially takes place in local elections regarding things like zoning and local ordinances and work contracts…

>I’ve interacted with people who knowingly vote for their own economic interests at the expense of society’s interests because they fundamentally believe they should take whatever they can get.

This should hopefully be balanced out by the fact that everyone gets a vote.

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#222

Post by jahaja » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #186

throwanem wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A third of college students embrace communism This sounds a lot scarier when you don't realize that, among the same set, there is all but ubiquitous contempt for "tankies", i.e. the very same Stalinist-style sort of thing you're worried about. Newsmax won't tell you that, because why would they? Keeping you frightened keeps you doomscrolling their ads. I know about the tankie hate because I know a bunch of the peop…

I appear to arguing on HN with people who are repeating Marxist critiques of capitalism back at me, so I don’t think my fears are at all irrational. Also, see: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1996/04/14/w... > McCarthy, as his subsequent history would show, knew little about communism, on this side of the ocean or the other. This loutish, duplicitous bully, who carried, not the names of Reds but bottl…

Multiple time you omitted or avoided to respond to the obvious fact that what you call "Marxist" (which you use to evoke a negative red-scare emotion) is in fact Democratic Socialism - the attempt to extend democracy - not a Stalinist dictatorship.

The issue is that extended democracy implies an extension to the economic sphere, and thus an overhaul of private property relations. This is the actual threat that is attacked by capitalists, and the Stalinist regime is used to paint all threats to these undemocratic institutions in a totalitarian light.

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#223

Post by whywhywhywhy » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

The worst part is the moment you realise Twitter wants you to feel this way, they could actually only feed you positive things but instead they see it as their moral imperative to push this anxiety on you.

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#224

Post by tsimionescu » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:21 PM UTC

fbi-director wrote: post #153

tsimionescu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a less common perspective: https://jacobinmag.com/

I couldn't get past two headlines before hitting the X in the forner With the first thing you see being a request to pay (buy in print!!) and the second being a headline like "feminism needs capitalism like a fish needs a bicycle", well, I can't take it too seriously or "different".

Given that most newspapers have a pay wall, the half-screen pay-fence doesn't seem so egregious to me.

Regarding the article title, I'm not sure what was the problem. The Jacobin is a leftist newspaper, so critiques of capitalism are to be expected. If you dislike the style of the title, I can appreciate that, everyone has their own tastes. But there is also a quick summary of the thesis of the article, in case the title was too unclear:

> The inclusion of more women at the top of oppressive power structures shouldn’t be confused with women’s liberation. We need a radical, socialist feminism, not a repackaged version of Sheryl Sandberg’s corporate-friendly "lean-in" brand.

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#225

Post by throwanem » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:23 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #213

throwanem wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is gaslighting [1] you. People are arguing that your interpretation of current events is in error. By calling that "gaslighting", you implicitly claim that disagreement with you is in itself an abusive act. Calling anyone who disagrees with you abusive seems like a pretty wild flex. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

Well I guess it depends on what you mean that my stated concern is a “problem that doesn’t exist?” Do you mean that Marxist ideas aren’t finding renewed currency? Nobody seems to deny that efforts to equate slavery with capitalism are critiques pioneered by Marx. Instead they seem to be arguing that Marx was correct. So the ideas do seem to be having renewed currency, in which case denying that fact is gaslighting. I…

What I mean is, where you seem to see Marxist ideas re-entering the sphere of public debate in the United States circa 2020 as evidence of some sort of vast generational conspiracy to subvert the US and replace its current government with some kind of Stalinist totalitarianism, I see Marxist ideas re-entering the sphere of public debate in the United States circa 2020 as a totally unsurprising and if anything long delayed response to the mounting evidence that four straight decades of untrammeled capitalism on the Reaganite model has had catastrophic results for almost everyone in the United States, to say nothing of the rest of the world.

What I don't see is any need to assume that, because Marx's critique of capital is serving as a source for those developing a modern critique of capital, Stalinism must necessarily follow. I think that's really where we disagree, and I'll admit, I feel no nearer understanding the wellspring of your fear now than I did when I started this conversation.

Your experience is of course what it is, and I can see how it would influence anyone's perspective. What I don't see is what makes events in Bangladesh 25 years ago a reliable predictor of events in the United States today.

Or, for that matter, what makes Newsmax's claims of BLM being some kind of secret Gramscian Stalinist underground a reliable predictor of anything. Conservatives in this country have been slandering their opponents with that kind of stuff for going on a century at this point, and - pace Tailgunner Joe, of whose claims I disposed in an earlier comment - it has never yet proven true. That stuff's pretty toothless at this point, even with somebody like me who's old enough to remember when the Soviet Union, and state communism in general, was still a going concern on a meaningful scale. The kids just aren't listening any more, and I see no reason why they should be.

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#226

Post by adsjhdashkj » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #96

zozin wrote: post #59

I deleted my Twitter a few months ago and my life is better for it. The need to be “in the know” was powerful, but I realized that I was consuming vast amounts of shallow information that resulted in shallow, uninformed opinions. I’ve been reading a lot more long-form articles and books; I’ve finished reading three books in the last month or so. When my Twitter habit was strong I would often start a book and give up…

The problem I've been facing recently is that long form also turns out to be a waste of time after you go through the most informational/influential pieces. Lots of the articles thread the same water, dive into totally unnecessary details, or just tell a story that, while fascinating, does not really give you any important new information, or bury it in a few casual sentences, never elaborating on them. For books it…

Agreed about shallow articles. On that note, for someone seeking to browse current topics but with good, quality information sources - what news/etc sites do you enjoy?

Eg, i actually like "current events", especially news. I want to know what my political actors are doing, good or bad - but only concrete information. Especially with the current administration. Rumors / weak leaks are wasted cycles in my brain.

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#227

Post by KoftaBob » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

zozin wrote: post #59

I deleted my Twitter a few months ago and my life is better for it. The need to be “in the know” was powerful, but I realized that I was consuming vast amounts of shallow information that resulted in shallow, uninformed opinions. I’ve been reading a lot more long-form articles and books; I’ve finished reading three books in the last month or so. When my Twitter habit was strong I would often start a book and give up…

I had a similar realization recently. When you truly think about it, the vast majority of news you read/hear isn't even remotely actionable information for the average person.

At best, it'll be something interesting and feeds into our natural curiosity. Other than that, this idea that it's our responsibility as citizens to stay constantly informed on what's happening in the world is nonsense.

Ask yourself, what was the last time you read something in the news that contained information you could actually act on in a meaningful way? Our biggest opportunity to act on information as regular citizens generally comes with elections, at which point you can just read up on the candidates views/proposals before voting.

We really don't need to be obsessively keeping up with the news, the world will keep moving whether or not we know about it.

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#228

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #221

lotsofpulp wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have spoken to people who have admitted their racist ideologies and motivations for voting. And I’ve interacted with people who knowingly vote for their own economic interests at the expense of society’s interests because they fundamentally believe they should take whatever they can get. The latter example especially takes place in local elections regarding things like zoning and local ordinances and work contracts…

> I’ve interacted with people who knowingly vote for their own economic interests at the expense of society’s interests because they fundamentally believe they should take whatever they can get. This should hopefully be balanced out by the fact that everyone gets a vote.

It’s evidently not, especially since votes aren’t equal in the US since voters in certain states have more sway in electoral college than others. Which is how we end up with leaders that the majority did not elect.

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#229

Post by architect64 » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #96

zozin wrote: post #59

I deleted my Twitter a few months ago and my life is better for it. The need to be “in the know” was powerful, but I realized that I was consuming vast amounts of shallow information that resulted in shallow, uninformed opinions. I’ve been reading a lot more long-form articles and books; I’ve finished reading three books in the last month or so. When my Twitter habit was strong I would often start a book and give up…

The problem I've been facing recently is that long form also turns out to be a waste of time after you go through the most informational/influential pieces. Lots of the articles thread the same water, dive into totally unnecessary details, or just tell a story that, while fascinating, does not really give you any important new information, or bury it in a few casual sentences, never elaborating on them. For books it…

I enjoy the Axios news format; it's pretty concise, and you have the option to dig deeper into a given topic or event.

Re: 'Doomscrolling' breeds anxiety – how to stop the cycle

#230

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #185

dragonwriter wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thousands of school districts are integrating material into their curriculum that claims slavery was capitalist. Chattel slavery of the type practiced in the early US and elsewhere was part of the dominant Western system of the mid-19th century for which critics coined the term “capitalism”; what else would it be but capitalist?

The term “capitalist” was not coined by critics of capitalism. For example, David Ricardo used the term decades before Marx. Criticizing capitalism by linking it to slavery was pioneered by Marx, and accepting that point of view is Marxist rhetoric. It is, of course, logically invalid to claim that because slavery was practiced in countries that happened to be capitalist, that slavery is capitalist. By that logic, sl…

> The term “capitalist” was not coined by critics of capitalism

The term “capitalist” for people who control capital was not, the term “capitalism” for a politicoeconomic system (from which comes “capitalist” in its other sense of an advocate/defender of that system, or, as an adjective, pertaining to that systemas, opposed to labelling a particular economic class) was.

> It is, of course, logically invalid to claim that because slavery was practiced in countries that happened to be capitalist, that slavery is capitalist.

It would.be, but that's not the argument. Early modern chattel slavery evolved alongside capitalism, was imposed exclusively by capitalist powers, and reflects the apotheosis of the capitalist commodification of labor from the mutualism of feudal relations, even beyond wage-labor, and the evolution beyond capitalism in the direction, if not by the means, advocated by critics like Marx that led to the modern mixed economy displacing the system for which “capitalism” was coined began with abolition of slavery.

Early modern chattel slavery (not slavery more generally, such as feudal or ancient patriarchal slavery, including serfdom) was a distinctly and exclusively capitalist institution.