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The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

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Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#201

Post by _AzMoo »

HeavenFox wrote: post #192
esrauch wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The healthcare thing doesn't jive with what I've heard from my native Chinese friends; I've heard if you have the right connections (and by association, wealth) you can get exactly what you need, but without that you can't get anything.

On the contrary, I believe most people will be better off with the Chinese healthcare system than the U.S. one, because nobody go bankrupt from going to the doctor. Office visit cost at most $20 - that's without insurance. Every thing has a fixed price, so you will never get a surprise bill afterwards. If you insist on visiting the best doctor in the field, wait time can be long; but otherwise you can walk into the h…

Nobody will go bankrupt from going to the doctor, but no doctor will see you without cash-up-front. As a person coming from a western country with universal healthcare, it was very confronting navigating the Chinese hospital system. Every time we needed something we were first directed to an administrator who would take payment. eg, payment for initial consult, then payment for ultrasound, then payment for pharmacy services, etc.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#202

Post by auganov »

theseadroid wrote: post #187
auganov wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of my friends back in China, especially devs, use VPN daily This is such a tired argument. You've got a tiny percent of the population with the ability to proxy out of China. You cannot easily share the information you find with non-VPN friends. Not even with VPN-enabled friends. Sharing any politically sensitive info under your identity is a big no-no. I once did an experiment on Weibo and posted screenshots…

>You've got a tiny percent of the population with the ability to proxy out of China. do you have data to back your claim up? >You cannot easily share the information you find with non-VPN friends. We talk in person, during lunch or on dinner tables, in office. When we talk politics online we invent new words to avoid auto detection. The recent hot topic is this: https://www.reddit.com/r/China_irl/comments/hp8z29/%E7%…

According to this ZDNet article [0] 14% of Chinese internet users use a VPN daily. If you do the math that's roughly 7% of the Chinese population.

> We talk in person, during lunch or on dinner tables, in office. When we talk politics online we invent new words to avoid auto detection. The recent hot topic is this: ... basically some guy got detained because he whistleblowed something food safety related. We talk politics, in ways you normally wont imagine. But not the politics you expect.

Right, so even to discuss local drama that doesn't even involve big politics you still have to use coded language and can get detained for it. That's not exactly an environment that fosters free spread of information.

> That's an interesting topic because most Chinese dont care

And that's the sad part. Chinese citizens are being detained often for years without any due process and people don't care. That's exactly what decades of government propaganda do to people. Not even going to mention the organ harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners which gets somewhat censored even in the Western media too. Most people in China (and the West) are simply unaware of it[1].

[0] https://www.zdnet.com/article/vpns-can-still-be-used-in-chin...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#203

Post by whoevercares »

coupdejarnac wrote: post #198
whoevercares wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think your point is mostly valid and benign, Your impression of China seems outdated and tone might seem a bit arrogant to a native Chinese. Chinese people recognize the gap and appreciate the excellence in their daily life. The CCP rarely censored in the way you described(e.g. it never says China’s education/manufacturing is the best, instead they call out the remaining gap constantly). As a matter of fact,…

While there is some truth in what you say, many overseas Chinese get their news from Chinese sources even if they have access to better options. It creates a vicious cycle of cognitive dissonance.

Well I haven’t read Chinese news sources for many years. Speak of cognitive dissonance, Fox News and sometimes CNN are among the worst few media I’ve ever seen

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#204

Post by everettp »

theseadroid wrote: post #200
pmontra wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples? From my direct experience from a 3 weeks journey 5 years ago: A super app like WeChat. I'm happy we don't have one because super app == super control. (BTW WhatsApp was still legal back then.) A ban on gas powered small motorcycles. All of them were electric, some with a retrofitted electric engine, some natively electric. I wish we did the same. I can't think about other things that were or could look bett…

Here's one of the most important things I can think of that's pushing me back to China more and more each day: I live in one of the major NA cities and I dont feel safe walking outside after dark (after 8pm). I have a friend got robbed on knifepoint around 11pm this past March. The case hasn't been closed. Numerous friends' homes got broke in and stuff stolen and cases are all cold. And I was almost hit by a left tur…

If your only examples are North America and China, it may feel like there is a direct tradeoff between safety and privacy. But that would be a false analysis: most Western nations have far lower rates of violent crime than the United States, without the need for omnipresent surveillance.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#205

Post by theseadroid »

auganov wrote: post #202
theseadroid wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You've got a tiny percent of the population with the ability to proxy out of China. do you have data to back your claim up? >You cannot easily share the information you find with non-VPN friends. We talk in person, during lunch or on dinner tables, in office. When we talk politics online we invent new words to avoid auto detection. The recent hot topic is this: https://www.reddit.com/r/China_irl/comments/hp8z29/%E7%…

According to this ZDNet article [0] 14% of Chinese internet users use a VPN daily. If you do the math that's roughly 7% of the Chinese population. > We talk in person, during lunch or on dinner tables, in office. When we talk politics online we invent new words to avoid auto detection. The recent hot topic is this: ... basically some guy got detained because he whistleblowed something food safety related. We talk pol…

Please dont break my sentence half way. Western media has been doing that and they wonder why the Chinese ppl are not receptive of their messages or ideas. I feel it's too impolite so I will not follow up on the rest. Sorry.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#207

Post by theseadroid »

everettp wrote: post #204
theseadroid wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one of the most important things I can think of that's pushing me back to China more and more each day: I live in one of the major NA cities and I dont feel safe walking outside after dark (after 8pm). I have a friend got robbed on knifepoint around 11pm this past March. The case hasn't been closed. Numerous friends' homes got broke in and stuff stolen and cases are all cold. And I was almost hit by a left tur…

If your only examples are North America and China, it may feel like there is a direct tradeoff between safety and privacy. But that would be a false analysis: most Western nations have far lower rates of violent crime than the United States, without the need for omnipresent surveillance.

maybe. I've lived in Europe for a bit and it's a bit better but not to the point I feel safe everywhere during the night in cities(but at least I dont live in fear of getting hit by cars that much). And other than China I've mentioned I feel safe during night in Japan, Taiwan, or Singapore. Again I'm not sourcing any data here because it's just my personal experience of whether I'd feel safe in cities during night.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#208

Post by throwaway_kufu »

throwaway2474 wrote: post #117
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #83

Here's another angle. The increasing censorship within China leaves less and less opportunity for the greater Chinese population to learn about the capabilities of other countries. A few examples of excellence that are still available to Chinese citizens are the NBA, Apple products, US education and Tesla cars. Most nations export excellence of some type to China. Having these examples in their hands or on their scre…

Your comment is about 15 years out of date. There isn’t much that is “excellent beyond what is available” in China anymore. This type of thinking is why western foreign policy continues to get China totally wrong. Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience.

> There isn’t much that is “excellent beyond what is available” in China anymore.

Democracy and freedom of thought.

Despite your experience of Foreign Chinese Students being confused rather than liberated by the West...in my experience I’ve never met a Foreign Chinese Student that didn’t want to permanently relocate to Canada or the US.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#209

Post by CrazyStat »

bllguo wrote: post #108
whoevercares wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think your point is mostly valid and benign, Your impression of China seems outdated and tone might seem a bit arrogant to a native Chinese. Chinese people recognize the gap and appreciate the excellence in their daily life. The CCP rarely censored in the way you described(e.g. it never says China’s education/manufacturing is the best, instead they call out the remaining gap constantly). As a matter of fact,…

yes, seconded. China isn't North Korea or the USSR. Don't take for granted that the West is "better", at this point China is looking over and saying "prove it" Can you blame Chinese citizens for preferring the stability and prosperity of their own regime, when they have the current disarray of American democracy to compare to? Frankly I would argue that the Chinese have a much better understanding of the US than the…

> Can you blame Chinese citizens for preferring the stability and prosperity of their own regime, when they have the current disarray of American democracy to compare to?

Let's ask the Chinese citizens in Hong Kong how they feel about the stability and prosperity of their regime, shall we?

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#210

Post by dehrmann »

smacke wrote: post #141
thedrbrian wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience. As someone who has never been to China could you list some things the West is missing?

American here. I spent a couple of months in China and have Chinese friends, so here are a few things off the top of my head (take with a grain of salt and consider talking with Chinese people for a more authentic perspective): - Reliable high-speed railway. - Night markets -- lots of people socializing in the street into the early hours of the morning, enjoying street food, beer, etc. - A sense of shared experience…

> "economic" liberties

I think that's a false dilemma. The Nordic states have roughly the same personal liberties as the US, but the welfare system means people are much more financially secure.

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