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The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

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Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is about 15 years out of date. There isn’t much that is “excellent beyond what is available” in China anymore. This type of thinking is why western foreign policy continues to get China totally wrong. Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience.

>Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience. As someone who has never been to China could you list some things the West is missing?

American here. I spent a couple of months in China and have Chinese friends, so here are a few things off the top of my head (take with a grain of salt and consider talking with Chinese people for a more authentic perspective):

- Reliable high-speed railway.

- Night markets -- lots of people socializing in the street into the early hours of the morning, enjoying street food, beer, etc.

- A sense of shared experience that's difficult to find in hyper-individualistic societies.

The Chinese perspective, AFAICT, is that individual liberties are worth trading for prosperity and so-called "economic" liberties. I'm told that this is something that's difficult to understand unless you've experienced the sort of progress that China has observed firsthand.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#142

Here's another angle. The increasing censorship within China leaves less and less opportunity for the greater Chinese population to learn about the capabilities of other countries. A few examples of excellence that are still available to Chinese citizens are the NBA, Apple products, US education and Tesla cars. Most nations export excellence of some type to China. Having these examples in their hands or on their scre…

While I think your point is mostly valid and benign, Your impression of China seems outdated and tone might seem a bit arrogant to a native Chinese. Chinese people recognize the gap and appreciate the excellence in their daily life. The CCP rarely censored in the way you described(e.g. it never says China’s education/manufacturing is the best, instead they call out the remaining gap constantly). As a matter of fact,…

It's unfortunate that your comments are getting downvoted when they are filling in for a perspective that seems to be missing from the conversation. I hope some people can see value in your comments as data points from China, rather than a value judgment.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#143
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience. As someone who has never been to China could you list some things the West is missing?

Public transportation, affordable healthcare, & weechat are all things that are significantly better in China. — An American that spent a few weeks in China.

I doubt you'd want to trade your healthcare for what is available to the average Chinese person (as opposed to wealthy urban elites and expats). The public transportation really is extraordinary though.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#144
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience. As someone who has never been to China could you list some things the West is missing?

Public transportation, affordable healthcare, & weechat are all things that are significantly better in China. — An American that spent a few weeks in China.

The healthcare thing doesn't jive with what I've heard from my native Chinese friends; I've heard if you have the right connections (and by association, wealth) you can get exactly what you need, but without that you can't get anything.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The increasing censorship within China leaves less and less opportunity for the greater Chinese population to learn about the capabilities of other countries. Most of my friends back in China, especially devs, use VPN daily. Many Chinese learn English via English media or TV shows. check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-s... >The CCP news tells me how terrible the USA is, yet, the…

A simple question: are you a party member?

The implication of this question is pretty rude, but also, CCP membership isn't terribly meaningful. See, e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/us/politics/china-travel-...

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#146
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chinese people who study abroad are more often confused by the things missing in the west than they are liberated in the way you describe, in my experience. As someone who has never been to China could you list some things the West is missing?

Public transportation, affordable healthcare, & weechat are all things that are significantly better in China. — An American that spent a few weeks in China.

> weechat

The sweet pleasure of being spied upon by the CCP ?

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#147

This shouldn't be surprising to people. The NBA has a bigger fanbase in China than in the USA. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-09/china-s-5...

> The NBA has a bigger fanbase in China than in the USA. Só what? Why should that dictate what letters I can or cannot put o the custom jersey I buy myself and pay with my own money?

Because they’re made in China, and the supplier rejects it, I assume.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why millionaire players and coaches are absolutely mute (or are muted) on any China issue, or claim that the issue is complicated . I think it's healthy to remind people, from time to time, how Hollywod (e.g. Tencent), the NBA, and other American institutions have sold themselves to CCP money.

I understand that many racists want it to be morally wrong to do business with China, but I don't believe it's that simple. Americans who've never even visited China feel free to moralize about how what Chinese people really want is a choice between two shitty parties, just how it is in America. But many Chinese look at America and think it's a terribly mismanaged country that used to be great, and is falling further…

I think you argument would be a lot better, if you were more careful about discussing the difference between the things that are done by the government of a country, and the experience of people living in that country. Ordinary Chinese people are not imprisoning Uighurs in their living room, and ordinary Americans aren't dropping bombs on Yemen on the weekend, both would find that abhorrent, so when they hear their own country described through these activities it's jarring, but feel less discomfort describing the other country through reference to it's worst atrocities.

If we wanted to, but I think it's unnecessary for this conversation, we could compile a list for the terrible things that China and the US have done, and both list would be horrific.

There would be two significant differences between the two lists at the moment: The US military is much more active outside its own claimed borders The Chinese government is much more active suppressing speech and thought.

I do not believe these differences are due to any moral superiority on either side - that would be a rather remarkable claim.

The people run over by tanks in Tienanmen, arrested for political dissent in recent years aren't Americans, they are Chinese people pushing for a more open society, a desire for fairness is not an American quality it is a human one. As federal agents abduct protesters of the streets in Portland, it should be clear - abuse of power is not a Chinese failing, it's a human one. I think the there is a very good case that the difference between the lists of Chinese and American atrocities is simply a description of the differences in power and accountability of the two governments. There are plenty of good reasons to fear that both governments would like to expand their power and reduce accountability to look more like a hybrid of the worst of both.

Your last sentence takes something that's real - white racism and assumptions of cultural superiority, and elevates it to 'the real problem', I think you're close, but you've missed a bigger picture. A Chinese friend of mine told me about breaking in to hysterical laughter as a child when first hearing about white supremacy, a the story as she tells it now (ironically) is that her reaction was 'what idiots, don't they know the Chinese as the superior race!'

Identifying with a group is deliciously pleasurable, identifying with a nation, with it's flags and songs and strong military even more so, and puts us in a vulnerable position, in which powerful people can use that identification, to weave an overly simple myth about our country that blinds us to complexity. Free speech, ending military aggression won't kill China or America, but it will destroy the power and fortunes of some within those countries.

When we engage in tit for tat whataboutism in these forums, we are averting our eyes from the flaws in our own countries, and advancing the fortunes of the greediest and most destructive people in our societies.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#149
post #121

I recall Nike being in a similar situation. As I recall, they forbade terms like "sweatshop".

But that's a bit different. For Nike, writing "sweatshop" on a show is equivalent to bashing Nike . Freehongkong isn't a negative message against the NBA itself.

Almost as bad as the taxation without representation some cities have to endure.

Re: The NBA bans customers from putting ‘freehongkong’ on customized league jerseys

#150
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transportation, affordable healthcare, & weechat are all things that are significantly better in China. — An American that spent a few weeks in China.

The healthcare thing doesn't jive with what I've heard from my native Chinese friends; I've heard if you have the right connections (and by association, wealth) you can get exactly what you need, but without that you can't get anything.

I can’t speak to healthcare generally but one of my college roommates was from China and she just could not wrap her head around the politicization of birth control in the US. I remember her asking us if Americans thought it was dangerous or addictive because she couldn’t understand why it was so controversial that the affordable care act required birth control to be covered.
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