HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures • Hacker News Board

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#11

Post by justinsb » Wed, Mar 30, 2011, 8:10 PM UTC

wladimir wrote: post #5

justinsb wrote: post #2

My understanding is that electronic signatures are actually legally binding, and an electronic signature just means anything that signifies intent to sign (e.g. no crypto required). So the patent office accepts your name in slashes, as I recall. Of course the real problem is that the organizations that require faxed signatures don't have any real idea as to why they're doing that or whether they need to do it or even…

How can it be legally binding if it's not proof in any way? A traditional signature can be analyzed on paper to make sure it is genuine, but everyone can copy/paste your signature under a document digitally. It needs a cryptographic signature to have any value.

Because it's pretty easy to fake a traditional signature as well? Particularly if it only needs fax fidelity!

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#12

Post by justinsb » Wed, Mar 30, 2011, 8:12 PM UTC

bradleyland wrote: post #7

justinsb wrote: post #2

My understanding is that electronic signatures are actually legally binding, and an electronic signature just means anything that signifies intent to sign (e.g. no crypto required). So the patent office accepts your name in slashes, as I recall. Of course the real problem is that the organizations that require faxed signatures don't have any real idea as to why they're doing that or whether they need to do it or even…

The real trick is to drag along just enough of the old world that it feels familiar to people. That's exactly what HelloFax is doing, and I believe it will be a key factor in their success.

Agree... I like what HelloFax is doing, and will definitely use it next time I have to deal with "one of those companies"

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#13

Post by run4yourlives » Wed, Mar 30, 2011, 8:30 PM UTC

This (signatures not faxing) is a much more difficult problem than simply sending a piece of paper with an image of your signature on it.

Basically, if I'm moving all my faxes through your startup's servers, what exactly proves that it is me signing up for credit card offerings, trips to Venice and discount car loans, and not your 2 month employee that is pissed at you for making him work late.

e-signatures bring up so many issues that can cause a world of hurt. To move from fax to e-signature support is a large step.

See here for more information: http://www.recombo.com/digital-signature/

(I'm not endorsing this product or company, but it provides some background.)

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#14

Post by T2P » Wed, Mar 30, 2011, 8:50 PM UTC

I've been waiting for Google to "kill the fax machine" since their voice program launched. Sending faxes for free hasnt been a problem--at the least most public libraries will send a few pages at pennies (or free) per page. Most services to receive faxes cost 10 bucks a month to get your own number. I dream of giving people my Google voice number, and whenever a fax comes through I get it in my inbox as a PDF attachment. sigh Someday...

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#15

Post by joeguilmette » Wed, Mar 30, 2011, 9:24 PM UTC

Davey wrote: post #9

Free faxing isn't revolutionary, you can send one with www.freefax.com or with www.faxzero.com and they have been around for years.

yes but they suck. the world is littered with examples of established companies being upset by teams who do a better job.

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#16

Post by TillE » Wed, Mar 30, 2011, 9:54 PM UTC

joeguilmette wrote: post #15

Davey wrote: post #9

Free faxing isn't revolutionary, you can send one with www.freefax.com or with www.faxzero.com and they have been around for years.

yes but they suck. the world is littered with examples of established companies being upset by teams who do a better job.

I'm not convinced HelloFax doesn't suck. I tried it a few days ago for a form* I needed to sign, and it destroyed the quality of the PDF to the point of unlegibility.

I wound up futzing around with iAnnotate on the iPad, which required a bit more effort but actually worked.

* http://dok.dkb.de/pdf/rekla_kk.pdf

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#17

Post by il » Wed, Mar 30, 2011, 10:05 PM UTC

Well done Joseph, congrats on the continuing growth!

People mulling startup ideas take note: A great way to build something people want is to find a process that has become entrenched and stagnant and identify and remove points of friction (like signing digital documents without a physical fax machine).

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#18

Post by guiseppecalzone » Wed, Mar 30, 2011, 10:33 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #16

joeguilmette wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes but they suck. the world is littered with examples of established companies being upset by teams who do a better job.

I'm not convinced HelloFax doesn't suck. I tried it a few days ago for a form* I needed to sign, and it destroyed the quality of the PDF to the point of unlegibility. I wound up futzing around with iAnnotate on the iPad, which required a bit more effort but actually worked. * http://dok.dkb.de/pdf/rekla_kk.pdf

Hi TillE, Joseph here, the cofounder of HelloFax.

Sorry it didn't work out for you. We had a day where we redid our document converter. It's possible something happened while we were pushing out changes. If you have a moment, mind trying it again and pinging us at support at hellofax dot com?

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#19

Post by daimyoyo » Thu, Mar 31, 2011, 12:05 AM UTC

Today, I had to print out, sign and send a work agreement. It took an hour, 12 miles of city driving at $3.75/gal, and it cost $10.85. I'm VERY interested in this company. Self employed people need to watch every penny they spend so a way to save over 80% is great. Next time I need to send a contract back, I'll be using this service. Thanks to YC for shedding light on a great idea.

Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures

#20

Post by greattypo » Thu, Mar 31, 2011, 2:28 AM UTC

I would love to use HelloFax, but most things that I actually need to sign these days are, almost by definition, sensitive or confidential.

E.g.: Investor agreements, stock plans, contracts, etc.

Would anyone else feel uncomfortable about handing over copies of all this to a startup?