HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
1–10 of 21 posts
Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
#2My understanding is that electronic signatures are actually legally binding, and an electronic signature just means anything that signifies intent to sign (e.g. no crypto required). So the patent office accepts your name in slashes, as I recall.
Of course the real problem is that the organizations that require faxed signatures don't have any real idea as to why they're doing that or whether they need to do it or even whether it's legal, it's just "that's the way we've always done it"
Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
#3In my ideal world I wouldn't need to futz with "e-signatures" or any sort of visual representation of my signature. I fail to see what's wrong with standard public key encryption - why can't I sign a document the same way I sign an email - with my keypair.
When it came time to renew my lease for my St. Louis apartment, but I was still in San Francsico, I had to do exactly what is described in this article. Sign a blank paper, photograph my signature, paste the photo into the PDF on the signature line, and send it back via eFax. How dumb is that? Its not secure in any way, and there's absolutely ZERO proof that it came from me. On the other hand if I sign it with my private key, there may not be a pretty handwritten copy of my name on the line - but there's fairly strong proof that I am the one that actually submitted the form.
Maybe there needs to be a fancy GUI on top of all of it that somehow links PGP signatures to images of handwritten signatures to satisfy people that are fixated on them, but to me, electronically signing documents with an honest-to-god handwritten signature is something that needs to die: yesterday.
Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
#4"And as soon as people realize that it’s possible to sign a document without printing it out first, they’ll abandon their fax machines. The only question is which software or service they’ll use instead."
What question is this? Of course they use government issued ID-card and sign documents digitally using free, government backed, official (and open-source) software for that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_ID_card
Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
#5My understanding is that electronic signatures are actually legally binding, and an electronic signature just means anything that signifies intent to sign (e.g. no crypto required). So the patent office accepts your name in slashes, as I recall. Of course the real problem is that the organizations that require faxed signatures don't have any real idea as to why they're doing that or whether they need to do it or even…
How can it be legally binding if it's not proof in any way? A traditional signature can be analyzed on paper to make sure it is genuine, but everyone can copy/paste your signature under a document digitally. It needs a cryptographic signature to have any value.
Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
#6In my ideal world I wouldn't need to futz with "e-signatures" or any sort of visual representation of my signature. I fail to see what's wrong with standard public key encryption - why can't I sign a document the same way I sign an email - with my keypair. When it came time to renew my lease for my St. Louis apartment, but I was still in San Francsico, I had to do exactly what is described in this article. Sign a bla…
as visual representation of the signature isn't a requirement as a matter of law. places like docusign, etc., use it because it makes people feel safe and secure, as if they're hand signing paper documents. imagine if the question as to whether you signed a document came before a court. you're right: the question would be, what evidence shows that thecoffman signed this? and public key encryption would be stronger than an image of a handsigning.
Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
#7My understanding is that electronic signatures are actually legally binding, and an electronic signature just means anything that signifies intent to sign (e.g. no crypto required). So the patent office accepts your name in slashes, as I recall. Of course the real problem is that the organizations that require faxed signatures don't have any real idea as to why they're doing that or whether they need to do it or even…
The real trick is to drag along just enough of the old world that it feels familiar to people. That's exactly what HelloFax is doing, and I believe it will be a key factor in their success.
Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
#8My understanding is that electronic signatures are actually legally binding, and an electronic signature just means anything that signifies intent to sign (e.g. no crypto required). So the patent office accepts your name in slashes, as I recall. Of course the real problem is that the organizations that require faxed signatures don't have any real idea as to why they're doing that or whether they need to do it or even…
How can it be legally binding if it's not proof in any way? A traditional signature can be analyzed on paper to make sure it is genuine, but everyone can copy/paste your signature under a document digitally. It needs a cryptographic signature to have any value.
Because of that problem most organizations prefer 'digital signatures' which have a cryptographic component.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_signature#Legal_test...
Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
#9Free faxing isn't revolutionary, you can send one with www.freefax.com or with www.faxzero.com and they have been around for years.
Re: HelloFax (YC W11) kills the fax machine, but it's really about e-signatures
#10Will there be as much money in the e-signature business as there is in the e-fax business? The latter seems to be saving the user from a bigger hassle, hence the obvious monetizability. What happens if google docs adds the ability to add physical-esque signatures?