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Windows on Raspberry

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Re: Windows on Raspberry

#71

Post by skohan »

numpad0 wrote: post #64
BlahGod420 wrote: post #2

Does anyone have more experience with Windows on IoT devices in general? I'm curious about this - it seems like it could be a real game changer in general for IoT. But if it is already available and not actually doing much game changing, I'd be curious to know why.

Could you elaborate a bit on why do you think full Windows on IoT is a game changer... I think it’ll drive up unit cost by few hundred dollars on top of tenfold degradation in experience, so my gut feeling is it’s completely disconnected from reality. That said Microsoft seemed to think the way you think at least at one point, so you’re not alone at all, and it’s interesting where the misunderstanding come from.

Yeah I also find this take confusing. The main USP for Windows is that it runs proprietary software which has been captured through vendor lock-in. Even if you are somebody who just likes windows for some reason, I'm not sure what the value-add would be for a machine with no UI

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#72

Post by nix23 »

techntoke wrote: post #68
nix23 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A RPi4 with a external ssd (usb) would probably be better. A RPi5 with 8GB would be for shure much better.

Arch running Sway would be awesome

Have Fun ;)

Sway works:

https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Sway-0.15-Re...

Arch too:

https://archlinuxarm.org/

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#73

Post by RachelF »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #37
BlahGod420 wrote: post #2

Does anyone have more experience with Windows on IoT devices in general? I'm curious about this - it seems like it could be a real game changer in general for IoT. But if it is already available and not actually doing much game changing, I'd be curious to know why.

I knew someone at my old makerspace who was using it for a final thesis project several years back, when it was just out a year or so. He was a very capable C# programmer, I think this was the reason for picking it. But over the course of the project he became really bitter and his opinion dropped considerably. Apparently many things that are super easy to do on raspbian were impossible or super hard on Windows IoT.…

Yep, you'd need to write a device driver for all the hardware if Microsoft hasn't done it for you.

I would not use Windows on a Pi, it can be done, but makes no sense to me.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#74

Post by vardump »

nix23 wrote: post #66
cerberusss wrote: post #58

I have an old Windows mini PC, which is based on a single core Atom CPU. Clicking the Settings button will take multiple seconds to launch the Settings app. I wonder if Windows on the RPi will fare better.

A RPi4 with a external ssd (usb) would probably be better. A RPi5 with 8GB would be for shure much better.

RPi4 has up to 8 GB RAM. I think any RPi with anything better than one 32-bit LPDDR4 memory channel would fare better... at everything. I'd like to see at least a 64 bit wide memory channel if nothing else.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#75

Post by swiley »

BlahGod420 wrote: post #2

Does anyone have more experience with Windows on IoT devices in general? I'm curious about this - it seems like it could be a real game changer in general for IoT. But if it is already available and not actually doing much game changing, I'd be curious to know why.

> it seems like it could be a real game changer in general for IoT.

How so? IMO GNU/Linux is a very good IoT os, especially since the GPL compels companies to release firmware source so the community can patch the device after the company abandons it.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#76

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

nix23 wrote: post #67
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #54

I'm all in for expansion of RPi ecosystem. But personally, I would like to see improvements to smartphone linux desktop environments like Phosh/Plasma Mobile/Lomri for Raspberry Pi as this would enable anyone to plugin a GSM module, download some 3D printing smartphone designs, build themselves a nice and secure smartphone.

Here you go: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices

>desktop environments like Phosh/Plasma Mobile/Lomri for Raspberry Pi

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#77

Post by nix23 »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #76
nix23 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices

>desktop environments like Phosh/Plasma Mobile/Lomri for Raspberry Pi

>desktop environments

Well it's a smartphone screen not a desktop, but here you go:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/PinePhone-Convergence-Package-...

https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/User-Interfaces

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#78

Post by 6c696e7578 »

skohan wrote: post #71
numpad0 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate a bit on why do you think full Windows on IoT is a game changer... I think it’ll drive up unit cost by few hundred dollars on top of tenfold degradation in experience, so my gut feeling is it’s completely disconnected from reality. That said Microsoft seemed to think the way you think at least at one point, so you’re not alone at all, and it’s interesting where the misunderstanding come from.

Yeah I also find this take confusing. The main USP for Windows is that it runs proprietary software which has been captured through vendor lock-in. Even if you are somebody who just likes windows for some reason, I'm not sure what the value-add would be for a machine with no UI

> I'm not sure what the value-add would be for a machine with no UI

Educational lock-in. The RPI is a device for learning about computers. MS directly target the classroom at the moment, get people locked in early with online accounts, and then progress that into workplace familiarity.

I don't think employers want to spend the money to educate staff on using a Ubuntu-based desktop, even though that has a proven lower TCO.

Get them when they're in the class room. The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#79

Post by jfkebwjsbx »

asveikau wrote: post #48
pndy wrote: post #22

Wouldn't be that still kinda limited to what Microsoft Store provides in terms of software for everyday use? Because from what I remember, that translation feature on Windows which minces x86 to ARM is still away from being finished. I also wonder - which perhaps might sound bit naiive, if is there a chance that ARM will enter on PCs and we'll see combined architecture motherboards or at least some daughterboards wit…

Win32 is a C API. You don't need to emulate x86 for it. It's a recompile. Microsoft botched this circa 2012 by only allowing store apps for the RT tablet but I think they reversed this. It was always a product decision rather than a technical one, though. (I don't know why exactly, but they didn't want to let people recompile old software.)

It is a C API but a lot of code make assumptions about how things are laid out, which need fixing.

There is also a lot of software for which the source is not available anymore.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#80

Post by vardump »

fortran77 wrote: post #19
ldiracdelta wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience in general with windows is that you need GUIs everywhere to configure stuff, whereas linux is text config first. I just deployed 20 pi's at work for a project and remote management on raspbian is fantastic. My BOM for the project is $300 and the previous system's BOM was $3k. Love raspbian. The other piece is that there are 10 years of raspbian questions and answers on the internet. You have a problem,…

You can do absolutely everything from powershell on the command line, on your local machine or any machine in your network, from Windows 10.

Well, if it's controllable through a group policy. Otherwise you'll quickly regress to myriads of registry key incantations. Some things take hours or days to figure out how to configure.
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