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Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

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Re: Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

#51

Post by yannickt »

eyeforgotmyname wrote: post #14

I always thought that Gates was the key business guy and Allen the key technology guy, Gates made the money and Allen made the product. Once the product was out Allen was no longer required, the ball was in Gates court and he sold the shit out of it. Am I wrong in this view?

Cringely's article, as well as Allen's accomplishments outside of Microsoft make that questionable. Gates may have had more business savvy, but it seems pretty evident that Allen was in no shortage of it either. To put it another way, I don't think Allen was to Gates what Wozniak was to Jobs.

Re: Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

#52

Post by burgerbrain »

stretchwithme wrote: post #39

"I'm not sure Bill would ever have dropped out of Harvard if it wasn't for Paul," Mr. Yoffie said, referring to Mr. Allen's role in encouraging Mr. Gates to leave college to start Microsoft. "I don't know whether Steve Jobs, without Wozniak, would have ever gotten things together." baloney.

Without Woz, Jobs would have never even had a product to begin with. Forget having a company, there would have been no reason to form a company.

Re: Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

#53

Post by absconditus »

kmfrk wrote: post #42
patentnerd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that Paul is that great of a guy either. His company is a bit of a patent troll, for one. Here are some his "inventions": http://bit.ly/dXsk5P

Link is shortened, because it's ungodly long. It checks out.

HN already shortens URLs.

Re: Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

#54

Post by chaostheory »

sunchild wrote: post #19
codingthewheel wrote: post #3

Difficult to see how publicizing this stuff could be beneficial for Mr. Allen. At that level, and sitting on top of a multi-billion dollar fortune, it almost never behooves you to say anything negative about anybody -- least of all one of your former partners. I also think complaining about not getting a bigger share of MS stock, when you've got 14 billion in the bank...not exactly the stuff of which Jedi are made.

He isn't doing it to benefit himself. He probably doesn't care whether you like him or not, and he definitely doesn't need your money or respect. I guess Paul just wants the world to know that the image of Gates as our benevolent patron of philanthropy is itself revisionism, lest anyone forget that Bill Gates was one of the least loyal and trustworthy friends a person could ask for. It doesn't surprise me that HN sid…

I don't doubt Allen's claims, but years and experience can change a man. The person Paul was complaining about, probably doesn't exist anymore except in distant memories, albeit rather painful ones. People can change for the better.

Re: Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

#55

Post by tmsh »

The article makes it out as if Paul Allen is some sort of unlucky, dabbling entrepreneur post-Microsoft:

Many of his business investments, like the cable company Charter Communications, software company Asymetrix Corp. and set-top box maker Digeo Inc., have either flopped or fared poorly for him.

I don't think so:

http://www.vulcan.com/

Re: Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

#56

Post by dgallagher »

sunchild wrote: post #19
codingthewheel wrote: post #3

Difficult to see how publicizing this stuff could be beneficial for Mr. Allen. At that level, and sitting on top of a multi-billion dollar fortune, it almost never behooves you to say anything negative about anybody -- least of all one of your former partners. I also think complaining about not getting a bigger share of MS stock, when you've got 14 billion in the bank...not exactly the stuff of which Jedi are made.

He isn't doing it to benefit himself. He probably doesn't care whether you like him or not, and he definitely doesn't need your money or respect. I guess Paul just wants the world to know that the image of Gates as our benevolent patron of philanthropy is itself revisionism, lest anyone forget that Bill Gates was one of the least loyal and trustworthy friends a person could ask for. It doesn't surprise me that HN sid…

Bill Gates of 30 Years Ago != Bill Gates of Today

You of 10 Years Ago != You of Today

People change with time, and are not necessarily the same as they were in the past. Forming a collective of ones entire life and cherry-picking various moments simply gives you highlights, both good and bad. They don't speak to what the person is right now.

Probably your best bet to gage someone is to look at what they've been doing recently, going back maybe no more than ~5 years. Here you'll see someone whose learned from their past mistakes, likely acting differently due to life lessons, and are essentially the most authentic "version" of a person they currently are.

Re: Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

#58

Post by sushilchoudhari »

bad_user wrote: post #25
silvestrov wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wants to be acknowledged. Everybody knows Bill Gates and sees him as the smart and great computer guy, while Mr. Allan is an unknown. It's like 2 brothers where the lesser talented uses all his life to proof he's just as good and therefore never gets to create something.

I don't see Gates as the great computer guy. I look at him as a ruthless evil genius that made Microsoft what it is. Of course that's partly because he's also a "great computer guy". To make an analogy with Apple, if anything, his role at Microsoft was more like that of Steve Jobs, rather than that of Steve Wozniak; he provided the vision, he made the business calls that made Microsoft. Bill Gates does have a differe…

This is a very interesting article. I am myself working on a project and considering good friends to be co-founders in that. But based on what Paul Allen is mentioning here and based on few other stories of startups which made it big like Facebook, few thoughts came to my mind:

1) Is it that to make it really big, to the likes of Microsoft, Facebook a founder has to play games and trick his own friends in a way that the founder owns majority of stake in the company. I am not necessarily saying it is bad, it is just a observation and want your opinion. It is totally possible that one of the co-founders is so passionate about the idea that he works hard by twice or thrice as much as other cofounder and in the process somehow manages to get hold of major equity. What do you think? Is it necessary to be evil to make it big? Does your passion blind you somewhere in the process where one cannot distinguish right from "not so much right"?

2) I dont see and havent heard about Steve Jobs being great friends with Steve Wozniak. So is Bill gates with Paul Allen. Facebook Mark Z and other cofounders have some fights between them too. Given this and stories from similar or smaller companies, it makes me think, is it possible to have a good and healthy friend ship like relationship with your co-founder after a period of time? Or with the turn of events in the company it is bound to happen that the relationship will go sour? What do you guys think?

Re: Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

#59

Post by adammichaelc »

meterplech wrote: post #38

It seems to me the biggest allegation here is that Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer tried to dilute his shares when he was diagnosed with cancer the first time. I hate to seem callous here, but, that might've completely made sense. God forbid if Allen had died, the company, still pre-IPO startup whose main product was MS-DOS (pre Office or any version of Windows) would want its shares controlled by people with business i…

I think you are right. In my opinion you have to handle each situation separately. So you dilute because it's best for the company, and then you also (assuming you have the means) take care of your friend monetarily and help lighten the medical expense load for him.

Re: Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen Hits Out at Gates

#60

Post by kenjackson »

rbanffy wrote: post #44
meterplech wrote: post #38

It seems to me the biggest allegation here is that Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer tried to dilute his shares when he was diagnosed with cancer the first time. I hate to seem callous here, but, that might've completely made sense. God forbid if Allen had died, the company, still pre-IPO startup whose main product was MS-DOS (pre Office or any version of Windows) would want its shares controlled by people with business i…

There would be nicer ways to shield the company from that. They could talk to Allen, make sure that, in the possible event of his death, they would take care of his family in case the company succeeded. In all my commercial ventures, my partners were also my friends. I would never, ever even entertain doing something like this to a perfectly healthy partner, much less one with a serious health problem.

Targeted dilution of individual shareholders seems extremely shady. Almost seems like it should be illegal.

As noted by someone else, they should have simply retained first option to buy any portio of Allen's shares in the case where his shares would change hands. Actually that should probably apply to all major insiders.

Intentionally trying to dilute his shares, if this did indeed happen, is tantamount to stealing in my eyes.

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