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Windows on Raspberry

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Re: Windows on Raspberry

#41

Post by TheRealPomax »

Very cool, although a win10 minipc would probably make far more sense for people who specifically need a tiny windows 10 computer, especially as they basically cost less than what a copy of windows 10 pro costs.

(A fully functional fanless atom x5-Z8350, 4GB ram, 64GB flash, Win10 pro x64 Mini-PC will set you back $139. A copy of Windows 10 pro x64 is $168...)

And I know, some folks might say "why not a lattepanda?" to which the response really is "because that costs three times as much". Sure, you don't get GPIO pins on a minipc, but given that you can just buy a $10 data acquisition module that connects via USB, and that you can talk to using UART... that's hardly a problem?

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#42

Post by TheRealPomax »

DavideNL wrote: post #6

I wonder how well this runs in terms of CPU, i have a Macbook Pro and i don't hear the fans very often. Except when i run Windows 10, the fans frequently blast at the maximum level...

That's because bootcamp "conveniently" doesn't give Windows the same level of control that MacOS gets when it comes to running the fans. Nothing related to actual cpu utilization.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#43

Post by 1996 »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #41

Very cool, although a win10 minipc would probably make far more sense for people who specifically need a tiny windows 10 computer, especially as they basically cost less than what a copy of windows 10 pro costs. (A fully functional fanless atom x5-Z8350, 4GB ram, 64GB flash, Win10 pro x64 Mini-PC will set you back $139. A copy of Windows 10 pro x64 is $168...) And I know, some folks might say "why not a lattepanda?"…

> A copy of Windows 10 pro x64 is $168...

Cheaper on ebay. First sale doctrine covers you.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#44

Post by duskwuff »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #42
DavideNL wrote: post #6

I wonder how well this runs in terms of CPU, i have a Macbook Pro and i don't hear the fans very often. Except when i run Windows 10, the fans frequently blast at the maximum level...

That's because bootcamp "conveniently" doesn't give Windows the same level of control that MacOS gets when it comes to running the fans. Nothing related to actual cpu utilization.

Windows doesn't control fan speeds on native Windows systems either. At best, it's handled by vendor drivers. Often, it's handled by SMM interrupts.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#45

Post by thetinguy »

zozbot234 wrote: post #7
detaro wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Embedded Windows has been a thing for a long time and has steadily become less and less relevant over the past decade or so, with many users slowly migrating away. It is more expensive and basically unsupported by Microsoft and hardware makers, while adding very little unique features. I've basically only encountered it in "We stop support for Windows" announcements, "Here's how to make migrating away from it a bit e…

> Embedded Windows has been a thing for a long time Mostly in Windows CE palmtops, based on a miniaturized version of the actual Windows 9x interface. Not sure it's ever been a thing in real embedded workloads.

This is absolutely not true. Windows CE ran on things like ATM or cash registers or oscilloscopes or industrial control platforms.

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#46

Post by tyingq »

rowanG077 wrote: post #39
Zenst wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half-life - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM7h1Wv2mCY GTA Vice City - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4MUV_9ODS8 Certainly performance wise - better than expected, but gets down to what DX level the game is using, Rpi's not known for much graphics grunt. Though these two examples running well on the rpi4 with windows 10, better than you'd expect and kinda impressive.

And that is all running in software mode. The RPI4 has no working GPU.

I don't know much about it, so this has me curious. The specs say the BCM2711 has an integrated Videocore VI GPU. Are there just not drivers, or what about it makes it "not working"?

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#47

Post by vvanders »

zozbot234 wrote: post #7
detaro wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Embedded Windows has been a thing for a long time and has steadily become less and less relevant over the past decade or so, with many users slowly migrating away. It is more expensive and basically unsupported by Microsoft and hardware makers, while adding very little unique features. I've basically only encountered it in "We stop support for Windows" announcements, "Here's how to make migrating away from it a bit e…

> Embedded Windows has been a thing for a long time Mostly in Windows CE palmtops, based on a miniaturized version of the actual Windows 9x interface. Not sure it's ever been a thing in real embedded workloads.

Beckhoff still uses them as the basis for their PLC platform[1] and the exist in a lot of other embedded contexts as well.

[1] https://www.beckhoff.com/english.asp?embedded_pc/cx1010.htm

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#48

Post by asveikau »

pndy wrote: post #22

Wouldn't be that still kinda limited to what Microsoft Store provides in terms of software for everyday use? Because from what I remember, that translation feature on Windows which minces x86 to ARM is still away from being finished. I also wonder - which perhaps might sound bit naiive, if is there a chance that ARM will enter on PCs and we'll see combined architecture motherboards or at least some daughterboards wit…

Win32 is a C API. You don't need to emulate x86 for it. It's a recompile.

Microsoft botched this circa 2012 by only allowing store apps for the RT tablet but I think they reversed this. It was always a product decision rather than a technical one, though. (I don't know why exactly, but they didn't want to let people recompile old software.)

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#49

Post by my123 »

tyingq wrote: post #46
rowanG077 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is all running in software mode. The RPI4 has no working GPU.

I don't know much about it, so this has me curious. The specs say the BCM2711 has an integrated Videocore VI GPU. Are there just not drivers, or what about it makes it "not working"?

Broadcom didn't release GPU documentation yet, with only Mesa being available for now.

+ developing Windows GPU drivers isn't trivial

Re: Windows on Raspberry

#50

Post by ThrowawayB7 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #7
detaro wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Embedded Windows has been a thing for a long time and has steadily become less and less relevant over the past decade or so, with many users slowly migrating away. It is more expensive and basically unsupported by Microsoft and hardware makers, while adding very little unique features. I've basically only encountered it in "We stop support for Windows" announcements, "Here's how to make migrating away from it a bit e…

> Embedded Windows has been a thing for a long time Mostly in Windows CE palmtops, based on a miniaturized version of the actual Windows 9x interface. Not sure it's ever been a thing in real embedded workloads.

To add to the list of people pointing out that you're mistaken, I'll add that Windows CE was used in Ford's first and second generation Sync vehicle infotainment systems. It was also the basis for one of the two SDKs for the Sega Dreamcast.
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