Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence • Hacker News Board

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#41

Post by R0b0t1 » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

pravus wrote: post #13

jorblumesea wrote: post #9

Ironically, giving ideological ammo to the protestors that the system is rotten to the core and needs to be completely replaced. Unmarked rented vehicles kidnapping protestors that lead to interrogations in a secret offsite location sounds a lot like the Stasi or Nazi germany. No one should be ok with this, ever. Where are the "second amendments against tyranny folks"? Oh, they probably support the police. Nice to se…

We were told to shut up and put away our guns because these things could never happen...

This is more evidence to add to the pile pro-2nd people have to never compromise. The last really bad one was police taking guns from people during Katrina.

This is probably far worse. There's no way it is legal, and if it somehow is, it is more evidence of how badly out of touch with reality most judges are.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#42

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

Munky-Necan wrote: post #23

I'm surprised that someone hasn't been shot yet. Unmarked camouflage officers in unmarked vans that do not identify themselves as officers sounds like they might get shot at if they try detaining the wrong person.

It's a no-win situation. If they fight back, they get labeled as terrorists. If they don't fight back, it provides positive feedback for the behavior and is likely to continue.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#43

Post by staycoolboy » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

sircastor wrote: post #39

xenadu02 wrote: post #22

Secret police snatching people off the street in unmarked vehicles is 100% police state / gestapo behavior. No one should be OK with it.

My wife chided me saying "can we not go to Nazis right away?", so I corrected to the Stasi, or the KGB. I'm appalled. I live in a suburb of Portland. The worst that can be said about what's going on here is there's a lot of graffiti. I don't know how anyone can claim that The US retains some special status of freedom now.

And a garbage can was set on fire. And one or two windows smashed. But to hear it from Fox news, they think its the LA riots from '92.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#44

Post by mindslight » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #32

mindslight wrote: post #15

We're at the point where the larger Republican establishment either needs to repudiate and remove this anti-American wannabe dictator, or they're going to find themselves at the guillotine alongside him. Our society cannot take another 6 months of economic destruction, brazen totalitarianism, and weaponized ignorance.

> or they're going to find themselves at the guillotine alongside him Be careful what you wish for, because the tech overlords and their enablers aren't very far down the list after the politicians.

I'm not wishing for it. I stated what I'd like to see happen to prevent collapse from occurring.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#45

Post by R0b0t1 » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:05 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #30

xenadu02 wrote: post #22

Secret police snatching people off the street in unmarked vehicles is 100% police state / gestapo behavior. No one should be OK with it.

Unfortunately the way I see people defend this sorta stuff is that they tend to work backwards. They were detained because they are obviously criminals and they are obviously criminals because they are protesters and are guilty by association. Though I have a feeling that if any of the anti-mask protesters were treated like this you'd see sentiment change rather rapidly.

In the US the main power of policing is detaining on suspicion. A non-officer can only detain or intervene after observing concrete evidence. So what you are saying is "how it works" but with the caveat it needs to be recorded as an arrest to hold the system accountable to society.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#46

Post by staycoolboy » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

Munky-Necan wrote: post #23

I'm surprised that someone hasn't been shot yet. Unmarked camouflage officers in unmarked vans that do not identify themselves as officers sounds like they might get shot at if they try detaining the wrong person.

Especially with lots of alt-right military-cosplayers that frequent portland to stir up conflict. It's hard to tell who is a fed goon and who is an alt-right goon when they both shop from the same military suppliers. This has been going on for over a year.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#47

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #27

xenadu02 wrote: post #22

Secret police snatching people off the street in unmarked vehicles is 100% police state / gestapo behavior. No one should be OK with it.

> No one should be OK with it. Agreed. And no one should be okay with the police standing down while rioters smash public buildings, vandalize and desecrate public spaces and burglarize innocent local businesses. What is the fair middle ground, and how do we get there?

[deleted]

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#48

Post by balr0g » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #27

xenadu02 wrote: post #22

Secret police snatching people off the street in unmarked vehicles is 100% police state / gestapo behavior. No one should be OK with it.

> No one should be OK with it. Agreed. And no one should be okay with the police standing down while rioters smash public buildings, vandalize and desecrate public spaces and burglarize innocent local businesses. What is the fair middle ground, and how do we get there?

I’d suggest the fair middle ground is to loosen state power by defunding police departments and reinvesting in communities. I keep seeing this sentiment voiced, but from a ground level looking up it comes off as closeminded because it implies that “riots” and “protesting” are different things. The reality is no one in portland tried to burn down the justice center, if they did they would be shot on sight. Whats happening is people are disrupting their societies to make a point to the people who run it that they’re doing a poor job. That’s a noble endeavor, no matter the means. America’s founded on white supremacy, and America’s maintained white supremacy. I think it’s inspiring that people are targeting the police forces of their cities, who are in no uncertain terms the major enforcers of a rotten status quo.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#49

Post by jorblumesea » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #36

jorblumesea wrote: post #9

Ironically, giving ideological ammo to the protestors that the system is rotten to the core and needs to be completely replaced. Unmarked rented vehicles kidnapping protestors that lead to interrogations in a secret offsite location sounds a lot like the Stasi or Nazi germany. No one should be ok with this, ever. Where are the "second amendments against tyranny folks"? Oh, they probably support the police. Nice to se…

> Where are the "second amendments against tyranny folks"? Not supporting the people who blame them for violence and want to take their guns away. Does that surprise you? Perhaps there is a lesson here somewhere.

I think my point was that it was entirely a bad faith argument. They never cared about preserving freedoms, American democracy or the values that this country stands for. It was just a political tool in a cultural war chess game. It was to drive gun sales and get people out to vote.

They talk about having these guns to stand up to government overreach, preserving liberty and freedoms etc. Then when we have literal secret police in American cities taking away the very ideas of this country, they are nowhere to be found. They never believed it in the first place, or their interpretation is so skewed it's meaningless.

If your defense of freedoms or enforcement of American values is selective or entirely based on political ideology, what you actually believe is nothing at all.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#50

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

sircastor wrote: post #39

xenadu02 wrote: post #22

Secret police snatching people off the street in unmarked vehicles is 100% police state / gestapo behavior. No one should be OK with it.

My wife chided me saying "can we not go to Nazis right away?", so I corrected to the Stasi, or the KGB. I'm appalled. I live in a suburb of Portland. The worst that can be said about what's going on here is there's a lot of graffiti. I don't know how anyone can claim that The US retains some special status of freedom now.

[deleted]