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Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

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Re: Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

#21

Post by positr0n »

maw wrote: post #19
redacted wrote: post #4

The phenomenon of drug-smuggling submarines should be required study for anyone who preaches total prohibition of drugs. There is so much demand for this product that its suppliers were willing to build and travel in several homemade submersibles to smuggle it. And yet harsh jail-time and zero-tolerance are supposed to stop the trade?

Indeed. And also consider the opportunity cost here: all the drive, creativity, and talent that is going into making subs (in just this case; the incentives are such that drug dealers high on the food chain surely do a lot of interesting, creative, and risky things) could be diverted to something else--anything else--more productive. We're all missing out.

Isn't this argument valid for all types of illegal activity?

Re: Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

#23

Post by maw »

positr0n wrote: post #21
maw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. And also consider the opportunity cost here: all the drive, creativity, and talent that is going into making subs (in just this case; the incentives are such that drug dealers high on the food chain surely do a lot of interesting, creative, and risky things) could be diverted to something else--anything else--more productive. We're all missing out.

Isn't this argument valid for all types of illegal activity?

Hmm... I suppose so. However, selling drugs has two salient points that, I think, make it unique: it is lucrative and it shouldn't be illegal.

I might put prostitution in this category, but I'm not sure how profitable it really is. I understand that some prostitutes can make lots of money, but I don't think selling sex compares to selling drugs in terms of the money changing hands. I'd be interested to learn otherwise, though.

Re: Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

#24

Post by heed »

adsr wrote: post #18
jaysonelliot wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very sweeping and unsupported generalization. Legalizing drugs: -raises tax revenue -raises the quality of drugs (eliminating one of the greatest dangers--people ingesting unknown and even more deadly substances) -lowers costs, meaning addicts don't have to turn to a life of crime to support their habit -allows society to have responsible, adult discussions about the personal risks of different drugs -reduce…

Yes, however free supply will drive down prices. The current street price that people are perfectly willing to pay for 1 gram of cocaine tells a lot about the demand, and just how addictive the drug is. There is no reason legal cocaine would cost more than say, coffee. Now, what would cocaine at that price level do to a population, families and to society? I've seen the argument before, mostly applied to lighter drug…

Portugal has had much success with decriminalizing personal use of drugs.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.ht...

It's important to note that legalization doesn't mean there isn't regulation, or that users are resolved of all responsibility while under the influence.

Re: Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

#25

Post by GDH »

These Columbian cocaine runners are entrepreneurs and damn good ones at that.

They are innovative with their marketplace and have many barriers to overcome. I'm not saying that their product is a good product. I'm saying that if more startups ran with the intensity of cocaine smugglers, never giving up even when the competition is more advance and instead developing innovative, fast and simple methods to beat the competition, that many of the tech startups today would succeed instead of failing at the first large hurdle.

Maybe we can learn from these cocaine smugglers.

Re: Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

#26

Post by pstuart »

adsr wrote: post #18
jaysonelliot wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very sweeping and unsupported generalization. Legalizing drugs: -raises tax revenue -raises the quality of drugs (eliminating one of the greatest dangers--people ingesting unknown and even more deadly substances) -lowers costs, meaning addicts don't have to turn to a life of crime to support their habit -allows society to have responsible, adult discussions about the personal risks of different drugs -reduce…

Yes, however free supply will drive down prices. The current street price that people are perfectly willing to pay for 1 gram of cocaine tells a lot about the demand, and just how addictive the drug is. There is no reason legal cocaine would cost more than say, coffee. Now, what would cocaine at that price level do to a population, families and to society? I've seen the argument before, mostly applied to lighter drug…

I would downvote you if I could.

Alcohol is plenty cheap -- use that as your model for what happens when a cheap and potentially addictive drug is available in society.

Re: Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

#27

Post by adsr »

heed wrote: post #24
adsr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, however free supply will drive down prices. The current street price that people are perfectly willing to pay for 1 gram of cocaine tells a lot about the demand, and just how addictive the drug is. There is no reason legal cocaine would cost more than say, coffee. Now, what would cocaine at that price level do to a population, families and to society? I've seen the argument before, mostly applied to lighter drug…

Portugal has had much success with decriminalizing personal use of drugs. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.ht... It's important to note that legalization doesn't mean there isn't regulation, or that users are resolved of all responsibility while under the influence.

Yes, and I can agree somewhat with the reasoning behind it. Instead of chasing the end users, they are focusing their resources on the dealers and smugglers. Similar programs have been tested in Great britain in some select cities where known heroin users get free heroin and fresh needles.

Re: Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

#28

Post by adsr »

pstuart wrote: post #26
adsr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, however free supply will drive down prices. The current street price that people are perfectly willing to pay for 1 gram of cocaine tells a lot about the demand, and just how addictive the drug is. There is no reason legal cocaine would cost more than say, coffee. Now, what would cocaine at that price level do to a population, families and to society? I've seen the argument before, mostly applied to lighter drug…

I would downvote you if I could. Alcohol is plenty cheap -- use that as your model for what happens when a cheap and potentially addictive drug is available in society.

Well have you got any experience of hard drugs? If so have you seen the downside yet? It doesn't appear so.

First of all, alcohol is not without problems, how much does alcohol cost society, how many violent crimes, divorces, lost jobs and so on is directly related to it?

Cocaine is more addictive, much more likely to kill you from an overdose. It will take you from decent citizen to someone who hasn't slept for a week and thinks about nothing else than how to get hold of more at a much faster rate than alcohol. Now, increase availability, quality and reduce the price.

Re: Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

#29

Post by pstuart »

pstuart wrote: post #26
adsr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, however free supply will drive down prices. The current street price that people are perfectly willing to pay for 1 gram of cocaine tells a lot about the demand, and just how addictive the drug is. There is no reason legal cocaine would cost more than say, coffee. Now, what would cocaine at that price level do to a population, families and to society? I've seen the argument before, mostly applied to lighter drug…

I would downvote you if I could. Alcohol is plenty cheap -- use that as your model for what happens when a cheap and potentially addictive drug is available in society.

Apparently the thread is too deep to reply to you directly: but yes, I have tried hard drugs and walked away. My brother was not so lucky -- he died of a heroin overdose.

I have lost other friends to meth.

My mother was an alcoholic who died homeless.

Is that enough "cred"?

Re: Inside Seized Drug-Smuggling Submarines

#30

Post by adsr »

pstuart wrote: post #29
pstuart wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would downvote you if I could. Alcohol is plenty cheap -- use that as your model for what happens when a cheap and potentially addictive drug is available in society.

Apparently the thread is too deep to reply to you directly: but yes, I have tried hard drugs and walked away. My brother was not so lucky -- he died of a heroin overdose. I have lost other friends to meth. My mother was an alcoholic who died homeless. Is that enough "cred"?

I think there's a time limit in place to make you think twice before you reply, and avoid flame wars.

It has little to do with credibility, but your comment appeared as pretty naive.

Your reply surprise me since you know "what happens when a cheap and potentially addictive drug is available in society"

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