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Things I wish I’d known about CSS

cssfordesigners.com

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Re: Things I wish I’d known about CSS

#311

Post by hutzlibu »

Silhouette wrote: post #297
hutzlibu wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" but the whole ecosystem is a bit weird." It absolutely is. The web was meant for static documents and some link magic. Now allmost every complex programm can run in the browser with web technologies. And in the time between you had lots of powerful organisations with their own agenda, as well as millions of single developers with a agenda and a loud voice. How could a sane, clear spec be made, under these circumsta…

How could a sane, clear spec be made, under these circumstances? Serious answer: By respecting and supporting the organisation that had for a long time codified realistic web standards reasonably well. When the Web was younger, you could (and many of us did) learn all you needed to know about things like HTML and CSS by reading the documentation produced by the W3C. In many cases, the official recommendations themsel…

My experience with the W3C was very complicated written specs, with sometimes no connection to reality(implementation in the browsers). And they moved too slow.

And no. I don't think you can expect the whole world to wait for some spec commitee.

Re: Things I wish I’d known about CSS

#312

Post by Silhouette »

hutzlibu wrote: post #311
Silhouette wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could a sane, clear spec be made, under these circumstances? Serious answer: By respecting and supporting the organisation that had for a long time codified realistic web standards reasonably well. When the Web was younger, you could (and many of us did) learn all you needed to know about things like HTML and CSS by reading the documentation produced by the W3C. In many cases, the official recommendations themsel…

My experience with the W3C was very complicated written specs, with sometimes no connection to reality(implementation in the browsers). And they moved too slow. And no. I don't think you can expect the whole world to wait for some spec commitee.

It wasn't that way in the earlier days. The W3C certainly made some questionable decisions later on that contributed to its slide into irrelevance, but it was Google flagrantly ignoring standardisation, absurdities like "living standards", and the way all of the other major browser developers were asleep at the wheel for years that really sealed the W3C's fate. And now, sadly, a new generation of web developers is about to learn the hard way why browser monopolies are a bad idea. :-(

Re: Things I wish I’d known about CSS

#313

Post by Aachen »

jb1991 wrote: post #31

Yikes. I've been earning 6 figures as of about two years ago doing mostly HTML and CSS UI design for a bank. And I still did not know about many of these! I guess they are things I wish I'd known about CSS! Better late than never I guess.

Interesting, I am really really bad at css but knew all of this. Long ago, someone gave me 7 euros an hour to do some of this (and html/js/php; I never designed anything, I just edited an existing site to specifications, but css was still my least favorite part). Aren't these just things you run into and pick up on in the first webdev projects you do?!

Re: Things I wish I’d known about CSS

#314

Post by draw_down »

wruza wrote: post #55

Guys we need to talk. Are you capsbold serious? These are things that you learn in a first week of doing web development tutorials. I read this thread and it makes me think that I'm delusional because of a heat wave. Margins collapse? :focus exists? Me not getting a joke? I don't understand.

That was my reaction too. The display property is not, like, some arcane bit of knowledge only the real seasoned pros know. Basic, basic, basic stuff.

Re: Things I wish I’d known about CSS

#315

Post by ivanhoe »

k__ wrote: post #126

It always helped me to do an absolute basic concepts course on a new technology I learn. Like, sure I can play around in Photoshop or Eclipse or CSS or JavaScript and find most things. But a good 101 course is worth so much saved time. Most of the stuff in that article was mentioned in a CSS box model course I did 10 years ago. People were always baffled how I learned all this. Well, I read the docs! They always assu…

For me personally, documentation was just a step one, helping me to discover that some feature exists, what options are, etc. - and then "cobbling around", as you said, was the very important 2nd step where I'd really understand how something works and what's the best way to apply it in real life. Everyone learns differently, I guess...

Re: Things I wish I’d known about CSS

#316

Post by benhurmarcel »

codpiece wrote: post #262
benhurmarcel wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with the stronger safety net, it doesn't make up for the difference compared to the US for well-paid employees (such as engineers, or tech in general). US employees are much more well-off, there's no denying that. US levels for engineers compare more to Swiss level of living. However the safety net is much more beneficial for less-paid people, at a relatively low cost for them. I only visited the US so others mi…

I have worked in the US and Europe, and may give a direct comparison. US healthcare and education consume a vast portion of your pay. We paid cash for our daughter's college (biomedical engineering) at a total of over $300K. That buys her freedom of choice when it comes time to take a job, get an advanced degree, etc. Her colleagues will have more than $500K USD debt hanging over their heads when you factor interest…

Interesting, thank you. It seems the calculation becomes very different when you factor in the cost of a child (especially if he goes to college).

Re: Things I wish I’d known about CSS

#317

Post by TheBigSalad »

ChrisRR wrote: post #36
jb1991 wrote: post #31

Yikes. I've been earning 6 figures as of about two years ago doing mostly HTML and CSS UI design for a bank. And I still did not know about many of these! I guess they are things I wish I'd known about CSS! Better late than never I guess.

Six figures? In the US? Sometimes I wonder why companies even pay developers so much in the US. I'm a specialised medical embedded software developer in the UK and I'm not even halfway to six figures, and will likely never hit it. It astounds me that companies don't hire twice as many non-US developers for the same price and get more work for their money. Note, I'm not talking about outsourcing to the absolute cheape…

1. Why do you think UK software companies aren't more successful compared to American ones. Aren't they saving tons on development costs? 2. Have you considered that you are terribly underpaid?

Re: Things I wish I’d known about CSS

#318

Post by tasogare »

nwallin wrote: post #210
k__ wrote: post #126

It always helped me to do an absolute basic concepts course on a new technology I learn. Like, sure I can play around in Photoshop or Eclipse or CSS or JavaScript and find most things. But a good 101 course is worth so much saved time. Most of the stuff in that article was mentioned in a CSS box model course I did 10 years ago. People were always baffled how I learned all this. Well, I read the docs! They always assu…

> I always have the feeling people just cobble around for too long and should instead take at least a few days for a more structured learning approach. There are two kinds of documentation: there's a list of all the individual things you can do, and there's a "The fundamental abstraction is this ". The second is rare, and rarely done correctly, and much more important. A lot of people assume that X is like Y, but wit…

Can’t agree more. The first kind of doc is useful from time to time to check the correct argument of a function. The second one is about the big picture and the overall architecture. And sadly this is what is missing with every codebase I’ve worked on. In my project on the contrary, this is something I try to document.

Re: Things I wish I’d known about CSS

#320

Post by wruza »

nanna wrote: post #149
nanna wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GP is pointing out the parts that haven't changed at all Doesn't read that way to me: > These are things that you learn in a first week of doing web development tutorials. Sure, padding vs margin isn't exactly new, however `display: inline-block`, ::before and ::after, rem, ch, and :nth-child() certainly weren't in the old html4/xhtml and css2 guidebook that got me into web development!

To add, I think another post by the same poster on this HN post proves the point that they're not dismissing individual parts, but rather disputing (or sorry but trolling) the article as a whole: > I think (hope, really) that gp is just one heavy "/s". The knowledge presented in the article is so basic that it is hard to believe that a person who does html for two years and six figures doesn't know these. As for the…

I was disputing the article in a comment that you quoted, and this thread's other comments in ggggp, if it may help with the investigation.
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