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UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

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Re: UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

#51

Post by llsf »

solarkraft wrote: post #41

VPN providers are something you should have especially high standards for. They are largely unregulated, can see all of your meta data and have an economical incentive to sell it (IIRC some big player has been caught doing that). If a provider shows even the slightest amount of fishiness, instantly discard them (NordVPN immediately comes to mind, with their weird influencer marketing campaign).

How? I mean how do you measure VPN services? I never understood why people working in tech would ever trust a VPN service? A VPN is seeing all your traffic, and you have to take their word that they do not log any of it? I use free tier AWS servers across the globe with wireguard. It might not be perfect, but I still prefer that than using a VPN service.

Re: UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

#52

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #48
nullc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No such thing. You would be better off renting an inexpensive VPS and running your own VPN on it. Public VPN services have to be the one of the greatest lemon markets to have ever existed: You want people's private data? People will pay you to give it to them. Go ahead and sell the service for less than it costs due to the boatloads of data that you get. People realize this, so you end up getting a disproportionate n…

Running your own VPN provides no privacy, since you're the only user. Of course other VPNs don't provide privacy either. The belief that they do is due to marketing, and misunderstanding what the "Private" part of VPN means: it means that two non-publicly routable IP networks (10/8, 172.16/12, 192.168/16) are virtually joined into one network. VPN companies took advantage of this (and that the connection is usually e…

This is such a deeply misleading statement.

Privacy fundamentally is about keeping things private ... from someone.

If that someone is everyone, then nothing is private. Any sufficiently powerful entity can just overpower you, torture you into submission, guarantee a backdoor into a system you thought was cryptographically private, etc.

I for one do pay for a VPN service, because it keeps my home traffic stream private from some people - namely my ISP - with high probability.

It also obfuscates various types of traffic I generate and makes it harder, though I agree not impossible, to collate my traffic into a usable form for spying agencies.

For me that’s easily worth paying ~$100/year for someone else to manage, and if they base their business reputation on not collecting logs, etc., there’s enough incentive to trust that while also staying vigilant to verify what I can and switch providers if they are shown to be lying.

Self-hosting a vpn is utterly not an alternative for my use case, not even for technical reasons as I am an engineer who works on production web services all day. Just from a cost effectiveness / value POV, third party vpn vendors are a good solution for me.

Re: UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

#53

Post by dboat »

llsf wrote: post #51
solarkraft wrote: post #41

VPN providers are something you should have especially high standards for. They are largely unregulated, can see all of your meta data and have an economical incentive to sell it (IIRC some big player has been caught doing that). If a provider shows even the slightest amount of fishiness, instantly discard them (NordVPN immediately comes to mind, with their weird influencer marketing campaign).

How? I mean how do you measure VPN services? I never understood why people working in tech would ever trust a VPN service? A VPN is seeing all your traffic, and you have to take their word that they do not log any of it? I use free tier AWS servers across the globe with wireguard. It might not be perfect, but I still prefer that than using a VPN service.

Won't amazon cancel them when they keep getting copyright letters? Or do vpns have some other use I am not aware of.

Re: UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

#54

Post by [deleted] »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #48
nullc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No such thing. You would be better off renting an inexpensive VPS and running your own VPN on it. Public VPN services have to be the one of the greatest lemon markets to have ever existed: You want people's private data? People will pay you to give it to them. Go ahead and sell the service for less than it costs due to the boatloads of data that you get. People realize this, so you end up getting a disproportionate n…

Running your own VPN provides no privacy, since you're the only user. Of course other VPNs don't provide privacy either. The belief that they do is due to marketing, and misunderstanding what the "Private" part of VPN means: it means that two non-publicly routable IP networks (10/8, 172.16/12, 192.168/16) are virtually joined into one network. VPN companies took advantage of this (and that the connection is usually e…

[deleted]

Re: UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

#56

Post by stordoff »

orliesaurus wrote: post #14

What's the most trustworthy VPN that HN users recommend? My 3 year subscription to my local one is about to run out! Looking for advice on what is trusted nowadays!

Impossible for me to verify their no logging claims, but Mullvad have worked well for me in the past, and you can pay in cash using a randomly generated numerical user ID, which strictly limits what they directly know about you. The fact that they accept these payments, and that Mozilla work them with them for Mozilla VPN and presumably have done at least _some_ due diligence, give me some level of confidence that they are sincere about their other claims.

Re: UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

#57

Post by xenospn »

elliekelly wrote: post #28
cbsks wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using Mullvad for the last few years: https://mullvad.net/en/ I don't have much to base it on but they seem trustworthy, and I've seen them recommended here before.

I also use Mullvad and I pay by sending an anonymous envelope of cash to Sweden with a random number scribbled on a bit of paper. So far all of the cash I’ve sent has been added to my accounts. There’s obviously no way to know whether they follow through on their no-log claim but my sense is they’re pretty trustworthy. At the very least the person who opens their mail is.

I can't tell if this is real or not. Do you actually send cash to Sweden?

Re: UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

#58

Post by dave5104 »

dboat wrote: post #53
llsf wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I mean how do you measure VPN services? I never understood why people working in tech would ever trust a VPN service? A VPN is seeing all your traffic, and you have to take their word that they do not log any of it? I use free tier AWS servers across the globe with wireguard. It might not be perfect, but I still prefer that than using a VPN service.

Won't amazon cancel them when they keep getting copyright letters? Or do vpns have some other use I am not aware of.

Is your comment implying that VPNs are only used for copyright infringement?

Primary use of VPNs I see is to get onto my workplace's network.

Re: UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

#59

Post by gpm »

dboat wrote: post #53
llsf wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I mean how do you measure VPN services? I never understood why people working in tech would ever trust a VPN service? A VPN is seeing all your traffic, and you have to take their word that they do not log any of it? I use free tier AWS servers across the globe with wireguard. It might not be perfect, but I still prefer that than using a VPN service.

Won't amazon cancel them when they keep getting copyright letters? Or do vpns have some other use I am not aware of.

VPNs do have some legitimate uses. Encrypting traffic over malicious networks (e.g. your average airport wifi) is probably the most common one for the average legal user. Getting an IP address in a given country is another sometimes legal use.

I honestly don't know if you can do this with your average commercial vpn, but the technology is also good for many things like setting up virtual networks (hence the name) so you can do things like access your home computer from anywhere without exposing it to the internet.

Re: UFO VPN claims zero-logs policy, leaks 20M user logs [resolved]

#60

Post by pixxel »

llsf wrote: post #51
solarkraft wrote: post #41

VPN providers are something you should have especially high standards for. They are largely unregulated, can see all of your meta data and have an economical incentive to sell it (IIRC some big player has been caught doing that). If a provider shows even the slightest amount of fishiness, instantly discard them (NordVPN immediately comes to mind, with their weird influencer marketing campaign).

How? I mean how do you measure VPN services? I never understood why people working in tech would ever trust a VPN service? A VPN is seeing all your traffic, and you have to take their word that they do not log any of it? I use free tier AWS servers across the globe with wireguard. It might not be perfect, but I still prefer that than using a VPN service.

> I never understood why people working in tech would ever trust a VPN service?

It’s not that I trust them but I’d rather some random company across the world has my jerk off logs rather than my ISP who hands my habits to my government and all its favoured cohorts.

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