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Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

wsj.com

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Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#191

Post by fluffything »

allendoerfer wrote: post #119

I would like to see EY pay for the whole thing (since they were paid to check the books, which they obviously didn't). Also a big tree of associates and their superiors from BaFIN, Wirecard, EY, KPMG, etc. (maybe also some institutional investors, who are supposed to do due dilligence) getting fired and prosecuted for defrauding and not checking properly, please. But I am dreaming - three people will get convicted, s…

IIUC, EY was paid to check that what was reported in the books balances to zero.

They were not paid to check that what was reported in the books was "correct".

That's not EYs job. If somebody thinks a company lies in their books, they report it to BaFIN, and it is BaFIN job to investigate. They did the opposite of that here though.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#193

Post by konradha »

s9w wrote: post #143
rasz wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are technically not wrong. I mean Hans-Georg Maassen, head of BfV (spy agency), did lose his job. Not after sharing secret information with neo nazis, that wasnt enough. He doubled down by calling fake news at a video showing neo nazis chasing/beating immigrants. Had to leave his BfV presidency ... for a higher paying position at the interior ministry ;-) aka promotion.

That is not what happened at all.

How so?

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#194

Post by bboygravity »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #4

Also, under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business leaving the country's internet behind Ukraine or Belarus.[1] If you're on the DAX or a politician, you're untouchable in Germany and lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insa…

> so I have no idea how they always manage to looks so good in the corruption statistics.

It's all about definition of corruption isn't it?

In European politics and press we describe "outright deliberate corruption" with innocent deceiving descriptions such as "lobbying" and "failed government IT projects".

Is Northern Europe less corrupt than the South? Or is the Northern corruption just more institutionalized (aka: more competent at corruption)? I wouldn't know where to start to get an answer to that.

Is it corruption if the public never finds out?

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#195

Post by fluffything »

gridlockd wrote: post #185
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand what the word insider in "insider trading" means.

Are you sure you understand it? Insider trading is not limited to employees, that's a common misconception. I don't know the German law on the matter, but I would wager that the prosecution was warranted, even when the court ends up determining that the charge doesn't hold.

You definitely do not understand the word, because it is not limited to people, the word "insider" is limited to the information: is the information publicly available? If the answer is "no", then it is "inside" information, and trading on it is "insider trading".

These short sellers were trading on publicly available information. They just gave this information more publicity after getting their short positions, which is what you should do if you discover a market inefficiency that nobody else has discovered yet. That's your reward for making the market more efficient.

BaFin claims that this is insider trading was BS then and is BS now. They just don't understand how markets work, what their job is, and as a consequence did a poor job.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#196

Post by sdinsn »

gridlockd wrote: post #161
thomaskcr wrote: post #79

Not only that, they went after the short sellers who were writing about it publicly. > Germany's pursuit of short sellers began when Perring’s previously little-known outfit, called Zatarra Research, published its report about Wirecard. > In March, just three months before Wirecard’s collapse, prosecutors dropped their case against Perring after he agreed to make a donation of an undisclosed sum to a charitable organ…

They didn't prosecute "short selling", they prosecuted market manipulation: 1. Get a large short position 2. Publish damaging information 3. Profit It doesn't even matter if the information is true. If it is true, it is insider trading. If it isn't true, it is libel. Either warrants prosecution.

> If it is true, it is insider trading.

No, it's only insider trading if the information is based on insider (AKA private) information. Anything that can be derived from public information, even with a stretch, is also considered public.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#197

Post by sdinsn »

perlgeek wrote: post #166
chii wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how can a company be both owned by, but also regulated by "the same" entity? that is a conflict of interest aint it?

So, we should forbid all politicians to own stock.

Politicians holding stock and the government itself holding stock are two very different things.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#198

Post by C1sc0cat »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #142
levosmetalo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least he resigned when he was caught. Francisca Giffey, the Family Minister, never resigned when her doctor thesis was found plagiarized. Also von der Leyen, former German Defense Minister and current European Commission leader didn't resign when she was found that she falsified her official CV.

Guttenberg tried to hold onto his position. He at first rejected the accusations, even though they had already been extremely well documented: > Ich bin gerne bereit zu prüfen, ob bei über 1200 Fußnoten und 475 Seiten vereinzelt Fußnoten nicht oder nicht korrekt gesetzt sein sollten und würde dies bei einer Neuauflage berücksichtigen > I am perfectly willing to check whether in any of the over 1200 footnotes and 475…

" or a contract to friend's friend's construction company" Is absolutely corruption.

Years ago I did a high level IR/HR course at BT where this sort of low level corruption was one of the most common types of serious misconduct.

Of course getting investigated by BT Security is not a happy fun experience.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#199

Post by ketzu »

pkaye wrote: post #189
ketzu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short summary in english of the contents of the spiegel article: Four Hessian tax investigators noted many problems. Their employer (the state of Hessen) got them psychiatricly examined. The examiner found them "paranoid troublemaking" and that they lost their sense for reality. Therefore, they got diagnosed as permanently unable to work and pensioned. According to the wikipedia article the psychiatrist has to pay th…

Could the employees have requested a second opinion from another psychiatrist not connected to their employer?

According to the article by Spiegel, the psychiatrist concluded that the condition is chronic and consolidated, therefore, no second opinion is required.

But according to the wikipedia article, they later got more opinions when they got the conclusion overturned in court. (Including a famous psychiatrist whos assessment also helped overturn the Mollath case)

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#200

Post by raincom »

lima wrote: post #170
marcinzm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, in Wirecard prosecutors literally went after short sellers with criminals charges. For years. They only dropped charges a few months ago after a donation was made to a charitable organization. Seems pretty similar and pretty corrupt to me. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wirecard-accounts-germany... edit: I guess "we'll ruin you and throw you in jail" is better than "we'll throw you out a window" but it's…

> I mean, in Wirecard prosecutors literally went after short sellers with criminals charges. For years. They only dropped charges a few months ago after a donation was made to a charitable organization. Seems pretty similar and pretty corrupt to me. Corruption, or (gross) incompetence? Don't attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained by stupidity. Misplaced trust, broken culture, political pressure, or ev…

Germans are known for competence, industriousness, according to their PR or propaganda department. So, incompetence is ruled out.
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