Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#101

Post by maze-le » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:01 PM UTC

dsabanin wrote: post #80

maze-le wrote: post #26

> Sure, it's not like Russia or the CCP and you're not in danger of being suicided if you uncover some high level dirt You are not going to get disappered, but you are in danger of getting a fraudulent "psychiatric diagnosis" if you are a tax investigator uncovering dirt about some politicians or their cronies.[0][1] In this case the investigator got free, but I am sure there are some cases out there of people who di…

I was thinking, that in a scary way, the psychiatric diagnosis for people investigating corruption in Russia or CCP does start to make sense. It is such an extreme risk to go against these regimes, both to their and their relatives' safety and livelihoods that it makes their actions seem insane. Extreme risk-taking without regard for consequence, suicidal tendencies, paranoia towards the government, unbounded anxiety…

Yes, definitly, there are places in the world where such relevations are much worse with much more dire consequences -- I have nothing but utmost respect for people that still don't bow under such pressure -- I am sure I couldn't do it. I was born in the eastern part of Germany, when it was still called "GDR". Most people here still have quite some "paranoia towards the government", pretty much understandably so. I was too young to experience it myself but I know a lot of stories from my family members on how life was in these times, especially how you had to maintain a double persona in public life and be always on guard on what to tell people and whom to trust.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#102

Post by chki » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

levosmetalo wrote: post #69

arcturus17 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Spanish yet having lived in Germany for quite some time, I agree with you... I'm not saying there's no corruption in Germany - I think there's always going to be some level corruption at a certain scale of state - but there's no need to go as far as China or Russia for comparison. Just come to the South of Europe for a taste of what grand-scale corruption in what are otherwise (seemingly) high-functioning democ…

The issue is people are just not aware on the corruption in Germany because there's no "personal" and "everyday" corruption in a daily life. But if you look "up" the amount of corruption rise to the astonishing levels. Just remember Stuttgart 21 or the Berlin Airport, Hamburg Elb Philharmonic, Battleship Gorch Fock. Germany is full of such corrupt projects, it's obvious and everyone knows about it, but nobody yet wen…

>Stuttgart 21 or the Berlin Airport, Hamburg Elb Philharmonic, Battleship Gorch Fock

None of those are examples of corruption, unless you have an almost unlimited understanding of what constitutes corruption.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#103

Post by peroporque » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

donjoe wrote: post #21

chki wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're on the DAX or a politician, you're untouchable in Germany and lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insanely corrupt the German government and their corporate buddies are. This is obviously not true. There have been numerous uncovered political scandals in Germany that have led to politicians and managers loosing their job. Christian Wulff (Former German President), Guttenberg (f…

It seems like a couple of years ago, once you fucked up, you resigned out of respect to your office/job/position. Looking at our current Minister of Transport 'Andi Scheuer', this does not seem to be the case any more. He is still in office after burning more than € 500M in the recent toll scandal [0]. [0]: https://www.dw.com/en/german-transport-minister-blasted-over...

Or even worse, von der Leyen got promoted to be head of the EU. I mean, wtf!

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#104

Post by ketzu » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

maze-le wrote: post #26

> Sure, it's not like Russia or the CCP and you're not in danger of being suicided if you uncover some high level dirt You are not going to get disappered, but you are in danger of getting a fraudulent "psychiatric diagnosis" if you are a tax investigator uncovering dirt about some politicians or their cronies.[0][1] In this case the investigator got free, but I am sure there are some cases out there of people who di…

Short summary in english of the contents of the spiegel article:

Four Hessian tax investigators noted many problems. Their employer (the state of Hessen) got them psychiatricly examined. The examiner found them "paranoid troublemaking" and that they lost their sense for reality. Therefore, they got diagnosed as permanently unable to work and pensioned.

According to the wikipedia article the psychiatrist has to pay the four people 226.000€ as compensation for reduced income.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#105

Post by gumby » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #4

Also, under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business leaving the country's internet behind Ukraine or Belarus.[1] If you're on the DAX or a politician, you're untouchable in Germany and lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insa…

Germany is notable for its lack of “retail” or low level corruption (cops don’t take bribes, you can get a building permit by following the rules, etc). One of the best in the world.

But at the highest levels the opposite prevails, up there with France or even the US. Not Kleptocracy by any means, but bad by OECD standards. Because it’s so institutionalized it doesn’t really appear in those “corruption index” reports that NGOs like to produce.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#106

Post by keymone » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #4

Also, under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business leaving the country's internet behind Ukraine or Belarus.[1] If you're on the DAX or a politician, you're untouchable in Germany and lots of people inside and outside of Germany have no idea of how insa…

> Sure, it's not like Russia or the CCP

You really lost me there. The gap is civilizational. Russia and CCP are systemically corrupt, those countries must collapse for there to be a chance to uproot that disease. Pretending like it’s even meaningful comparing them to Germany on linear scale just creates suspicion in my mind that you’re part of somebody’s propaganda machine.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#107

Post by aaisola » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

There is also an element of hubris where Germany and the EU so badly wanted to have a tech champion emerge that was competitive on a global level, where they looked the other way anytime someone raised concerns. The FT has been criticizing Wirecard for yrs..

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#108

Post by kmlx » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:08 PM UTC

sbmthakur wrote: post #90

calpaterson wrote: post #22

Sadly can't read the article as I don't have a subscription but have followed this in the FT. Germany has an ultra-protectionist political culture for pet German companies. Wirecard was one such pet company but there are many others who have benefited from implicit state support in the form of lowered standards and private favouritism: Deutsche, VW, Siemens, etc. Wirecard even holds a banking license so should be sub…

This is a nice summary for those who either don't have access to the FT coverage or are out of the loop: When €2 Billion went missing at Wirecard: https://finshots.in/archive/wirecard-accounting-scandal/

here's the ft link containing all their wirecard coverage: https://www.ft.com/wirecard

i think some articles there are free to read.

for example: https://www.ft.com/content/284fb1ad-ddc0-45df-a075-0709b3686...

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#109

Post by hobofan » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:08 PM UTC

calpaterson wrote: post #22

Sadly can't read the article as I don't have a subscription but have followed this in the FT. Germany has an ultra-protectionist political culture for pet German companies. Wirecard was one such pet company but there are many others who have benefited from implicit state support in the form of lowered standards and private favouritism: Deutsche, VW, Siemens, etc. Wirecard even holds a banking license so should be sub…

> BaFin ("Germany's SEC" as the headline states) makes the risible excuse that he didn't apply proper oversight to them because they are arguably a "technology company"

Given that they've been deeply involved in regulating cryptocurrencies in the last years, that's a bullshit excuse if I've ever seen one.

Re: Germany’s top financial supervisor dismissed a decade of warnings about Wirecard

#110

Post by this_user » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

calpaterson wrote: post #22

Sadly can't read the article as I don't have a subscription but have followed this in the FT. Germany has an ultra-protectionist political culture for pet German companies. Wirecard was one such pet company but there are many others who have benefited from implicit state support in the form of lowered standards and private favouritism: Deutsche, VW, Siemens, etc. Wirecard even holds a banking license so should be sub…

Wirecard as a whole does not hold a banking license, only their banking subsidiary does. They were actually properly regulated by the BaFin, but everything else had much more loose oversight.