Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 433 posts

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#391

Post by thu2111 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #383
supernova87a wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the US is prepared to use nuclear weapons in a conflict involving Taiwan? Over semiconductor chips? (or are you using "nuclear option" in the rhetorical sense?) Or, given your next sentence says "if they don't..." I suppose you're only offering a non-expert sports-fan level of opinion. Well, my opinion is that the US government, and the US public, is unwilling and has been demonstrably unable to muster any…

>the US public, is unwilling and has been demonstrably unable to muster any kind of support for significant military force over any issue that is complex and intangible Americans would be directly affected by a conflict. Where do all of these electronics come from?

A lot come from US fabs!

People here are talking like Intel fabs have all ceased to exist or something. They haven't. It's really Europe that needs to panic about China/Taiwan (where there are NO firms that can manufacture semiconductors at scale), but, they aren't of course.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#392

Post by sct202 »

thu2111 wrote: post #391
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the US public, is unwilling and has been demonstrably unable to muster any kind of support for significant military force over any issue that is complex and intangible Americans would be directly affected by a conflict. Where do all of these electronics come from?

A lot come from US fabs! People here are talking like Intel fabs have all ceased to exist or something. They haven't. It's really Europe that needs to panic about China/Taiwan (where there are NO firms that can manufacture semiconductors at scale), but, they aren't of course.

Intel has fabs but they don't make anything except Intel products. They tried a few years ago to set up a contract foundry business, but it didn't work out despite signing some big deals initially (Nokia).

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#393

Post by euix »

euix wrote: post #116

The founder of SMIC on the mainland is actually Taiwanese and a former TSMC executive. Loyalties cut across the strait both ways, westerners overemphasis attachment to values and ideology over bloodlines and ancestry. It's true for some but not for others. There are quite a lot of foreign engineers working on the mainland, especially Taiwanese engineers. If you are a industry vet or got some kind of special talent yo…

Wow, I didn't expect this to get such a huge thread.

Just wanted to add a few comments. Yes, I realized after I wrote it, the chief economist guy definitely didn't swim across the entire straits. He deliberately asked to be posted to Kimen or (maybe it was Quemoy), anyway they are very close to Xiamen on the mainland. Allegedly, he actually paddled by holding on floatation ballons or something.

My comment about only going so far in the U.S. has more to do with the executive and political leadership roles in the U.S. and not about compensation (which is far higher in SV, though I am not sure how comp works at top SWE roles in China). Very few Chinese top performers make it to senior executive roles in the U.S. much less, much less the big chairs (CEO, board, etc).

Also I was more talking about hardware talent then software. I think in terms of software the quality on the mainland is already quite good, at least in certain domains, but all the hardware comes from the U.S. if you think of NVIDIA or this semiconductor duke out, the weakness is hardware. So if you have "special hardware" talent you are feted like a debutante in China.

Anyway, as someone who has been around the block a couple of times on both sides of the Pacific, I see no happy ending to the current situation. I have said this multiple times in other threads, we used to think economic engagement will turn the Chinese system more liberal but I think what is really happening is that it is turning the American one more authoritarian and state driven. If we look at the policies of the Trump administration against China, it's basically the type of economic statecraft China uses herself. So great, if you are anti-Chinese that's rich irony, but I think ultimately, there will be no winner and the process of fighting China will make America become just like China.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#394

Post by greatjack613 »

dang wrote: post #349
greatjack613 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This piece smells like ccp propaganda. Read the above after considering those muslims who are chained in a ccp re-education center in china. @Dang can you investigate this. I feel like the ccp is directly targeting hacker news to spread misinformation. Very scary.

You guys need to understand that there are many categories of users who might post something like that in good faith. First, a lot of Westerners hold anti-Western views—for whatever reason. This leads them to pro-China positions as a matter of tactics—the enemy of my enemy etc. Second, a lot of Westerners hold anti-US views. That's similar to category 1 but different. We see this from some Canadian, Australian, and E…

Thank you for the well written and thought out response. I do agree with you that there are users who would post that in good faith, and I think your 4 categories of people make sense.

My concern was based on intuition which in turn was based on the fact that I have seen a lot more pro ccp comments in recent months on HN, as well as seeing that people who openly question the ccp in ways such as their human rights records, diversity, IP theft, etc be downvoted when raising these points. Although this may be anecdotal and is definitely not proof of interference, I thought it would be wise to finally raise the issue with you.

Thank you for taking a look at this, and for all the work you do on keeping HN a healthy environment.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#395

Post by JCharante »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #205
bgee wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> months before WW2 What's the definition of WW2 here? US supplied oil and metal to Japan until 1941 [0], 3 years after Japan invaded China [1]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_leading_to_the_attack_o... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

My dad's uncle fought for the USA in the Pacific. At one point during the war, he was close to a Japanese bomb when it exploded. He survived. The interesting part of this story is that some scrap metal from the bomb had a stamp that said "Framingham, Massachusetts". He was from Northampton, MA, and he'd almost been kill by scrap metal made at a factory less than 100 miles from his home. https://goo.gl/maps/npoRDeSFHK…

Thank you for the stories! I study in Worcester, MA but haven't lived there for very long so I'm not too aware of the local history. I'll have some fun looking into this.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#396

Post by throw51319 »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #321
throw51319 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What proof do you have that China is all about sovereignty and border disputes? Why are they in Africa and selling advanced surveillance technology to countries?

They are in Africa to do business. I don’t know whether your claim of them selling surveillance technology is true, but even if it is, what does that have to do with your implied assertion that China is war mongering? Many people point to the Sri Lanka port as an example of debt diplomacy. But what they fail to mention is that Sri Lanka is the ONLY example, that Sri Lanka is happy with the outcome, and that China rec…

No I don't think they're war mongering, because a war is exactly what they don't want.

What they want is to leverage the power of a (well-run) hybrid command/market economy, huge population (larger talent pool), and power of being unsuspecting #2 and slowly absorb all the other countries and economies.

The US does this too, but at least we also want to spread democracy, so the people have a say.

If they can achieve the above, they will take control of the world.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#397

Post by FooBarWidget »

throw51319 wrote: post #396
FooBarWidget wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are in Africa to do business. I don’t know whether your claim of them selling surveillance technology is true, but even if it is, what does that have to do with your implied assertion that China is war mongering? Many people point to the Sri Lanka port as an example of debt diplomacy. But what they fail to mention is that Sri Lanka is the ONLY example, that Sri Lanka is happy with the outcome, and that China rec…

No I don't think they're war mongering, because a war is exactly what they don't want. What they want is to leverage the power of a (well-run) hybrid command/market economy, huge population (larger talent pool), and power of being unsuspecting #2 and slowly absorb all the other countries and economies. The US does this too, but at least we also want to spread democracy, so the people have a say. If they can achieve t…

What does 'absorb' mean? They want to be influential, that I agree with, but that's not really unique about China.

As for US spreading democracy, you should read up on how they overthrew Iran's democracy and replaced it with a dictatorship that suits the US interests better.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#398

Post by thewarrior »

ethbro wrote: post #379
thewarrior wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially a Manhattan project like initiative. It doesn’t have to happen overnight. China now has some of the best universities doing research in optics. If it happens in 5 years what will ASML do then ? The west’s monopoly on this sector would be finished. At this point China has no choice but to develop the tech or be forced to not have processors. Time will tell. Given that hard power is being used to pu…

But can they afford to fund it alone? The Soviet Union didn't collapse because a lack of capability. They collapsed because it was too expensive to forge their own way, when most of the world could pool capital via free trade. China is big. But the rest of the world is bigger. And despotic regimes inclined to trade with an embargoed state aren't typically the most flush economic partners.

It depends on what they need to fund. I don’t see why an investment of say 200 billion dollars over 5-7 years can’t bring them to the forefront in chip making. They have forex reserves in the trillions.

SMIC which is their Intel raised 7 billion dollars last week from investors inside China. That’s on top of what the government is putting in. People underestimate the resources at chinas disposal.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#399

Post by dragonelite »

ethbro wrote: post #379
thewarrior wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially a Manhattan project like initiative. It doesn’t have to happen overnight. China now has some of the best universities doing research in optics. If it happens in 5 years what will ASML do then ? The west’s monopoly on this sector would be finished. At this point China has no choice but to develop the tech or be forced to not have processors. Time will tell. Given that hard power is being used to pu…

But can they afford to fund it alone? The Soviet Union didn't collapse because a lack of capability. They collapsed because it was too expensive to forge their own way, when most of the world could pool capital via free trade. China is big. But the rest of the world is bigger. And despotic regimes inclined to trade with an embargoed state aren't typically the most flush economic partners.

Don't think its a good idea to act like China is a isolated nation like the soviet union. Lets see a guaranteed market is China + Russia + Iran + ASEAN seems like a good block amounting to almost 2.3 billion people. China already has quiet a strong foothold in Africa with tech brands giving a potential 1 billion future customers.

If one thing the EU should worry about not turning into a Hotel Europe where people only go to visit instead of producing stuff.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#400

Post by FooBarWidget »

ksec wrote: post #373
FooBarWidget wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does freedom of speech mean freedom from consequences? If you are my supplier, and I accuse you of various crimes (which may or may not be true), and as a result you stop supplying me, then are you shutting down my free speech? Do you have an obligation to keep doing business with me no matter what I say?

> consequences That is on the assumption of there is an accusation. Australia will simply be doing anything not in China's interest, that does not mean it oppose China nor accusing China or anything but China would immediately retaliate. Which in reality means if you are a major business partner to China you are ultimately controlled by China. And you are right, no one has obligation to do business with anyone. And t…

All right. But one thing I don't understand. Australia has been talking about decoupling for a long time now. Now China is actually decoupling, shouldn't Australia be happy that they are getting what they want? Why did it suddenly turn into 'China is bullying us' the moment their wish came true?
Post reply on HN