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TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#351

Post by chmod775 »

thewarrior wrote: post #104
jacquesm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's so funny. ASML holds the market for a reason, this is not so simple. You could probably do it on a Friday night but the Chinese may take a bit longer than that.

This is essentially a Manhattan project like initiative. It doesn’t have to happen overnight. China now has some of the best universities doing research in optics. If it happens in 5 years what will ASML do then ? The west’s monopoly on this sector would be finished. At this point China has no choice but to develop the tech or be forced to not have processors. Time will tell. Given that hard power is being used to pu…

>Given that hard power is being used to punish China they will use every means at their disposal from massive investments and manpower to poaching talents and even espionage.

Espionage is usually the first thing, not something of last resort. Pretty much all major players are doing it all the time. Doesn't even take much incentive.

The west isn't quite as free with giving the stolen information to the private sector (though the US really likes giving their domestic companies bidding advantages) - but since we're talking about China here, there's pretty much a guarantee of anything and everything finding a way to their private sector.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#352

Post by 082349872349872 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #108
actuator wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economically, yes. But they are still strong in defence tech. They are not that easy to push around just by threat of a war.

Is anybody going to go to war with Russia, China, or the US though? All three of these countries are too big and difficult to invade. You would quite literally have to decimate any one of them to keep hold of it. And economically it would be extremely unprofitable to the US and China. Russia could theoretically gain quite a bit if it managed to annex China but there is the whole issue of how would you even go about t…

The rationale for Eastasia, Eurasia, and Oceania:

"YOU AND THE ATOMIC BOMB (1945)" http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html#part33

It looks like he may have swiped the tripartition from Burnham, THE MANAGERIAL REVOLUTION, but it also corresponds nicely to who has the bomb.

    Eastasia - CN
    Eurasia - FR (sub/air only), RU
    Oceania - UK (sub only), US
Edit: FWIW, after skimming a summary of Burnham (the precursor to IngSoc), I'd say that capital, having devised hedge funds, LBOs, and PE, have shown they know well how to keep management in their place.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23810147

Conflicts between capital and management are nothing new: roman senators were not supposed to be "in trade", but owning commercial ventures was perfectly respectable. (I've heard it jokingly said that one's golf handicap in strokes ~= one's office time in hours per week...)

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#353

Post by joe_the_user »

woah wrote: post #337
joe_the_user wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tons of shitty stuff happening, from George Floyd, to Harvey Weinstein, to Jeffrey Epstein, to Julian Assange. But at least we know about them. I would prefer live in the West also. I also know a lot of people in the world value security over free expression. Just as much, I'm reasonably sophisticated in my reading of the news and the open expression here allows me to pick the truth reasonably easily out of a stream…

If Epstein happened in China, would anyone even be allowed to go on the internet and claim that he was killed because he had dirt on everyone in the government?

Lots of people make claims on the Chinese Internet - it's censored but stuff still gets out. The claim/canard that Covid came from a lab in Wuhan came from the Chinese Internet, for example.

The US definitely has more free expression, of course.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#354

Post by sergeykish »

actuator wrote: post #171
sergeykish wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really second tier [1], just holding nuclear weapon [2] and good brainwashing by state media. Economically far behind [3]. Nothing to gain with direct confrontation, no TSMC in Crimea, wars for prestige should be successful. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_we... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_…

Compared to US, maybe. But you are not doing justice to them just by looking at the USD expenditure since they produce almost everything within Russia and it might be far cheaper to produce stuff there. Here is what GFP ranks their military at: https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp . Even an economically more powerful country like China still has defence imports from Russia.

I was comparing to EU (France, Germany, United Kingdom, Italy in the list), maybe should compare with NATO. Following your logic China production is far cheaper. Israel has a lot of exports too [1] vs [2] but that's a good point [3]. Unfortunately your list is opaque.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_industry_of_Israel

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_industry_of_Russia

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World's_largest_...

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#355

Post by helixhelix »

0xy wrote: post #325
_7fvc wrote: post #260

I see this news as a loss for the US. It has to resort to regulations to stop TSMC from doing business with Huawei. When you can't incentivize your ally, that means your opponent's business is still very attractive. Regulations will only cripple your ally. Taiwan may comply on the outside. But inside, they'll cut under-the-table deals with China. They'll find loop holes to skirt regulations. Taiwan seems to be headin…

The US will defend Taiwan by any means necessary, including nuclear options. If they don't, they've already lost to China. Chip superiority is everything. If the US can't manufacture or source modern chips then it's over for them. US leaders and the military know this to be true. Taiwan is not Hong Kong. The US doesn't need Hong Kong. The US needs Taiwan.

Texas instruments ARM CPU when?

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#356

Post by typ »

euix wrote: post #116

The founder of SMIC on the mainland is actually Taiwanese and a former TSMC executive. Loyalties cut across the strait both ways, westerners overemphasis attachment to values and ideology over bloodlines and ancestry. It's true for some but not for others. There are quite a lot of foreign engineers working on the mainland, especially Taiwanese engineers. If you are a industry vet or got some kind of special talent yo…

>bloodlines and ancestry

This is a kind of value and ideology as well, just a unsophisticated and primitive one.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#357

Post by amelius »

0xy wrote: post #325
_7fvc wrote: post #260

I see this news as a loss for the US. It has to resort to regulations to stop TSMC from doing business with Huawei. When you can't incentivize your ally, that means your opponent's business is still very attractive. Regulations will only cripple your ally. Taiwan may comply on the outside. But inside, they'll cut under-the-table deals with China. They'll find loop holes to skirt regulations. Taiwan seems to be headin…

The US will defend Taiwan by any means necessary, including nuclear options. If they don't, they've already lost to China. Chip superiority is everything. If the US can't manufacture or source modern chips then it's over for them. US leaders and the military know this to be true. Taiwan is not Hong Kong. The US doesn't need Hong Kong. The US needs Taiwan.

Or build more fabs in the US?

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#358

Post by igorkraw »

tasogare wrote: post #335
narrator wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you are a billionaire the government can take everything away from that person in the blink of an eye if decides it doesn't like what that person says. In the west there are far more protections and due process rights.

> In the west there are far more protections and due process rights. Not necessarily. You could also lose your job and get totally screwed professionally if you speak against the last political trend. University professors could for instance lose a job over a pronoun matter. Sharing a memo have also been proven risky. The actors are different (state in one case, mob and PC in the other) but the end result can be pret…

Dude, this is very ingenious. If people get "cancelled", they don't have to fear for their lives, if they are white men they generally can find a job quite easily (maybe not the same one but eh) and there is enough diversity of opinion that they will have defenders like you in public fora.

Try organising a Tiananmn protest, or criticising the Uyghur internment camps within China

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#359

Post by dannyw »

_7fvc wrote: post #260

I see this news as a loss for the US. It has to resort to regulations to stop TSMC from doing business with Huawei. When you can't incentivize your ally, that means your opponent's business is still very attractive. Regulations will only cripple your ally. Taiwan may comply on the outside. But inside, they'll cut under-the-table deals with China. They'll find loop holes to skirt regulations. Taiwan seems to be headin…

America is offering generous deals to TSMC for building fabs in Arizona. Business leaders go for money.

Re: TSMC plans to halt chip supplies to Huawei in 2 months

#360

Post by dannyw »

ytch wrote: post #274
Nokinside wrote: post #28

What this means is that TSMC stops producing Huawei designed chips. Huawei has to buy third party designed and manufactured chips, most likely MediaTek. Manufactured in TSMC factories but not Huawei designed or Huawei owned IP.

IIRC, if you want to use 5G/4G with MTK chip, you need to pay license fee to QCOM? and US can still ban this.

Then China ignores license fees and patents.
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