When your coworker does great work, tell their manager • Hacker News Board

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#251

Post by wolco » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:05 PM UTC

jpadkins wrote: post #115

leetcrew wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, what if you just don't? at my company, raises have more to do with the financial situation of the company than subjective reviews (although we do have these, they just don't factor into compensation that much). if the company is doing well, everyone gets a nice raise. everyone gets the same percentage bonus every year which is calculated based on the entire company's performance. maybe this makes us unattract…

the theory is that high productivity people will not want to work there, as everyone else benefits from their excellence. If companies that retain these high productivity people perform better than companies that don't, evolutionary pressure will force these egalitarian companies out. I think this theory may be true in some fields like hedge funds or heavy sales performance based businesses. In software, I am not sur…

Being productive and not blocked is all some people want. Some might want to do less. And some might want to feel like they are the mvp. Michael Jordan didn't mail it in because Scotty was sitting at home.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#252

Post by jupyternonuser » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:06 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #84

allenu wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I do now after trying and failing at "doing my best work and hoping to get recognized". I'm bad at communicating when I've worked on something challenging, so now I realize I should never give more effort than can be noticed. You may think that's cynical, but this is a business and I'm paid not on what I actually do but what the business perceives me of doing.

Thanks! I might look into trying that mindset.

In another comment you say you find the lying and mindgames to be morally offensive. How do you not find this morally offensive as well?

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#253

Post by shanemhansen » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:06 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #170

xvector wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a massive amount of trust placed in managers. I've had asshole managers before that didn't have this much power thanks to company structure. Honestly I would never work at a place like this. Maybe it's lean and efficient for the company, but it definitely doesn't sound fun for the employee.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Yes, it certainly happens and it sucks for the good person that it happens to. But managers like that don't last very long. When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but…

> When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but they were let go soon afterwards.

I guess "the firings will continue until morale improves?"

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#254

Post by afterburner » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:06 PM UTC

kache_ wrote: post #62

ping_pong wrote: post #17

This is the biggest problem with stack ranking software engineers, the practice I had to endure while at a well known software company. All it does is create a zero-sum game, so I have no incentive to compliment anyone else. I needed to make sure that my rank was as high as I could make it, which really sucked during performance time. It was very stressful, even though I was a high performer, because it didn't foster…

The only thing that really matters is your reputation among others. If you want a promotion, start looking for another job or start your own company. The only incentive companies have to give you raises is the changes in the going rate for software engineers. Everyone ends up moving in ~5 years; and if you make a good impression that becomes an opportunity for you. I do a good job because I'm a professional, and care…

One of the least well understood things is that people can have different motivations to do a good job. But most people assume everyone's motivation is the same as theirs.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#255

Post by fbanon9876 » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #157

fbanon9876 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt similarly, earlier in my career. Until a manager explained it this way: "Suppose you make the greatest thing in the world, but nobody knows about it. Wouldn't it be better to have spent 95% of the effort on making a slightly inferior product, and 5% to actually get people to use it? Isn't it more impactful to make something people use? Well, in order to get people to use anything, you have to talk about it."

Thats a cop out by a lazy or self-centered manager. The difference is that it's the manager's job to evaluate you vs marketing a product to an unknown buyer. A good manager would actively work with their employees to know what is going on. Most managers I've seen care about their own performance and hitting target metrica. If you're not good a marketing a product, you should still spend 100% of your effort on making…

I think you jumped to assume that it's an external product. You have no idea whether the person in question is lazy or self-centered. The person who taught me this was neither.

In either case, at some point you have to convince someone else that it's worth investing their time. External, this can be dollars (although is that really the best way?). Internally (and optimally), you still need to self-market your product to marketers.

Either way, it's better to spend at least a little time doing marketing. Boiled down from all the hype and jargon, marketing is highlighting the benefits to another person. If an IC is working on a project where they don't know the benefits, there is a larger issue.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#256

Post by muffinman26 » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:12 PM UTC

GEBBL wrote: post #72

I hate the fact that in my current role, I am expected to give my colleagues ‘constructive feedback’. It seems like a minefield , when I am trying to focus on my own role, that I have to negotiate the feelings of a colleague as I leave feedback on them. I’d prefer to leave only positive feedback, but what my boss wants is that I need to find an improvement that my colleague has to make. I don’t like it.

Positive feedback is nice, but feedback on how to improve is incredibly useful. I really value constructive feedback and I spend a lot of time on providing helpful feedback when people ask for it. A short statement that a colleague did something badly is not very helpful, but taking the time to figure out how specifically they could improve and providing suggestions on how to do so usually hurts people's feelings less and helps them more. One coworker even specifically called out that they appreciated the time I put into providing feedback.

What really infuriates me is that even though I take the time to provide good feedback on how to improve, other people don't return the favor. I'm young and lazy. I know that my work is terrible. Yet no one has bothered to call me out on it in years or given me meaningful suggestions on areas to work on.

Constructive feedback might hurt someone's feelings for a few minutes, but if it is provides structure on how to improve in the future the recipient will come to appreciate it after a few minutes to calm down.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#257

Post by ZephyrBlu » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:12 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #157

fbanon9876 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt similarly, earlier in my career. Until a manager explained it this way: "Suppose you make the greatest thing in the world, but nobody knows about it. Wouldn't it be better to have spent 95% of the effort on making a slightly inferior product, and 5% to actually get people to use it? Isn't it more impactful to make something people use? Well, in order to get people to use anything, you have to talk about it."

Thats a cop out by a lazy or self-centered manager. The difference is that it's the manager's job to evaluate you vs marketing a product to an unknown buyer. A good manager would actively work with their employees to know what is going on. Most managers I've seen care about their own performance and hitting target metrica. If you're not good a marketing a product, you should still spend 100% of your effort on making…

> If you're not good a marketing a product, you should still spend 100% of your effort on making it great, and hire a marketing person to do the other part

You can't hire a marketing person for yourself. Marketing yourself and your work is important because things don't magically get discovered or recognized.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#258

Post by m0zg » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:14 PM UTC

And as a (former) manager: when your reports are doing great work, make sure to publicly praise them, as well as give people opportunity to beat their own chest and roar. Shipped a cool feature? Present a few slides at the weekly team meeting, explain why it's cool. This won't happen unless you encourage it and set aside the time. I don't see nearly enough of this, and I think it's a shame - it makes people feel good about what they do, feel that their work not a waste of time. It also engenders pride in good work and implicitly shines a light on poor performers.

As far as telling people's managers about good work, that is helpful of course. But I feel like there's this misconception among non-managers that managers don't already know who's great and who's not. As a manager who pays any attention at all this is clear as a day most of the time.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#259

Post by ZephyrBlu » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

cookienapper wrote: post #181

giantg2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's me. I don't like visibility. I like to do a good job for the sake of the job without bragging.

The dilemma is this... "Ignorance is bliss" - You can't be worried/stressed about problems you don't know... What if you're consistently doing good work but have zero visibility? Then years down the road, you notice a trend of people around you getting promotions/raises/bounses more often than you? The same people that slack off & lack integrity; to name a few. As a human being with emotions... can you honestly say y…

Is there a particular reason you never communicated your work?

I think people have an obligation to share the work they do, especially if it's interesting or impactful. Because if you don't, then generally no one else will.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#260

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

walleeee wrote: post #234

giantg2 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stressed because they will find a way to get rid of me if I stagnate too long. They begin to think there is something wrong with you if you haven't moved up. I'm 8 years into my career and this company, I'm a midlevel developer, and have an MSIS.

Sounds like you might consider your quality of life improved with an employer that doesn't expect you to climb arbitrary ladders? There are a lot of medium-small employers in lesser-known or unsexy domains that under normal circumstances struggle to compete with FAANG/similar to find people. How many are hiring right now I don't know, but it might be an option.

I have a family to support and we basically just make with this income, with the possibility to retire someday. My experience is in Neoxam and FileNet, so my options are limited. My wife won't consider moving, so that brings my options to zero.