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U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

#161

Post by reaperducer »

cowmoo728 wrote: post #118

There is so much to unpack here that it's difficult to even get started. The US government has encouraged companies to work with China for decades. I remember it being big news when GM opened a joint venture in China in 1997. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC-GM The Clinton administration pushed hard to increase trade with China and make it easier for American companies to outsource manufacturing. https://en.wikiped…

I remember it being big news when GM opened a joint venture in China in 1997.

Things change. The world has changed since 1997. China has changed since 1997.

In 1942 Germany was the enemy. Today, Germany is our friend.

Re: U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

#162

Post by rfrey »

reaperducer wrote: post #161
cowmoo728 wrote: post #118

There is so much to unpack here that it's difficult to even get started. The US government has encouraged companies to work with China for decades. I remember it being big news when GM opened a joint venture in China in 1997. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC-GM The Clinton administration pushed hard to increase trade with China and make it easier for American companies to outsource manufacturing. https://en.wikiped…

I remember it being big news when GM opened a joint venture in China in 1997. Things change. The world has changed since 1997. China has changed since 1997. In 1942 Germany was the enemy. Today, Germany is our friend.

> Today, Germany is our friend.

That may have been true a few years ago. The way the US is treating its allies, I'm not sure what the state of the "friendships" are anymore.

Re: U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

#163

Post by thephyber »

jerrac wrote: post #136
cowmoo728 wrote: post #118

There is so much to unpack here that it's difficult to even get started. The US government has encouraged companies to work with China for decades. I remember it being big news when GM opened a joint venture in China in 1997. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC-GM The Clinton administration pushed hard to increase trade with China and make it easier for American companies to outsource manufacturing. https://en.wikiped…

> Virtually every large american company needs clear laws on working with China. I partially agree. Yes, the Federal government should heavily regulate trade with China. But companies don't need to wait on the Government to do what is right. Companies could have ignored any Government push to do business in China. Outsourcing ethics to Government regulation is just plain wrong.

> Outsourcing ethics to Government regulation is just plain wrong.

This is a category error. Companies have an existential incentive to chase profits (and their managers can be sued by the shareholders for doing anything less). Their incentive to avoid violating laws, morals, and ethics is far lower.

> is just plain wrong

What is the consequence? Does anyone in the USA strictly avoid buying anything from any company with dubious ethics?

We all have knee-jerk reactions to outrage, but where we either (1) don't have enough transparency to know or (2) don't have reasonable alternatives, there is no ability for individual non-governmental entities to shape those incentives. The closest we get are internet mobs organizing boycotts, but lots of people reject that method for completely rational reasons.

Re: U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

#164

Post by T-A »

vmception wrote: post #147
tkinom wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"communism lost, except in name alone" - unfortunately not according the CCP / Xi. They/He still thinks China are winning according the Communism/Socialism principals and not before the Deng's market reform 30/40 years ago.

that's exactly what I am referring to, they do teach marxist ideals but they don't teach the contradictions to their populace while their free trade zones and market based reforms grow and grow and are wildly popular this is very easy to integrate into, compared to not having 7 special economic zones and administrative regions, and massive metropolitan areas supporting those zones.

> market based reforms grow and grow

https://www.ft.com/content/3e37af94-17f8-11e9-b191-175523b59...

Re: U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

#165

Post by refurb »

tw04 wrote: post #132

And the republican leadership all the way to the top have become "pawns of Russian influence" - I can tell you which is more damaging to the sovereignty of this nation...

Based on your sources and thorough analysis, ok, I’ll take your word on it.

Re: U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

#167

Post by csharptwdec19 »

reaperducer wrote: post #161
cowmoo728 wrote: post #118

There is so much to unpack here that it's difficult to even get started. The US government has encouraged companies to work with China for decades. I remember it being big news when GM opened a joint venture in China in 1997. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC-GM The Clinton administration pushed hard to increase trade with China and make it easier for American companies to outsource manufacturing. https://en.wikiped…

I remember it being big news when GM opened a joint venture in China in 1997. Things change. The world has changed since 1997. China has changed since 1997. In 1942 Germany was the enemy. Today, Germany is our friend.

> Things change. The world has changed since 1997. China has changed since 1997.

And yet the 2003 Chery QQ was such a copy of the Chevy Spark that you could pull a door off the QQ, put it on the Spark, and the air seals were fine.

Re: U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

#168

Post by thephyber »

vmception wrote: post #7

What it really comes down to is determining if we are doing the Cold War thing or not. To many of us, the cold war is over, and the other 300 years of rolling the nation state concept across the world is over too. As it is very easy to operate in a borderless global economy - at least between major economic unions - if you are privileged enough. If you absolutely need people to pick a side again, just say so. Otherwi…

Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap

It's relevant to understand that China's government/business relationship and their IP enforcement + state-sponsored hacking is considered the normal course of business in their (current?) value system. In the USA, the government/business relationship is (ostensibly) very different (although campaign finance + lobbying makes this claim dubious), so the US could easily misinterpret Chinese actions in this new "5th domain" as an act of war. When one of two actors believe that they are both at war, it doesn't take much for both actors to believe they are at war.

Also, I suspect with the 4 simultaneous crises (disease outbreak, economic depression, civil unrest, political loggerheads during this election year) the USA is having right now, China may well be able to outlast us and might end up the only "superpower" in a decade or two. A significant portion of the US population still thinks we are the "greatest nation" while our world rankings continue to slip below other OECD nations in {literacy, education, health, longevity, happiness, affordability, etc}. I suspect the "new cold war" is actually between two tribes in the USA. China just has to outlast our simmering civil war without galvanizing the two American factions together against them in battle.

Re: U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

#169

Post by tw04 »

refurb wrote: post #165
tw04 wrote: post #132

And the republican leadership all the way to the top have become "pawns of Russian influence" - I can tell you which is more damaging to the sovereignty of this nation...

Based on your sources and thorough analysis, ok, I’ll take your word on it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/15/cia-russia...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/30/trump-putin-ru...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/us/politics/trump-putin-g...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/16/politics/donald-trump-putin-h...

Ignoring the whole Roger Stone + wikileaks, Flynn, Manafort, etc.

The list goes on, and on, and on. But you already knew that.

Re: U.S. attorney general: Hollywood, tech companies “pawns of Chinese influence”

#170

Post by thephyber »

> He added that Hollywood has routinely caved into pressure and censored their films “to appease the Chinese Communist Party.”

First point: it's the Chinese government. In China, the government has the ability to shape business actions far more than in the US, because sovereignty. Calling it "CCP" feels political, even if it is accurate.

Hypocrisy, coming from the federal government of the USA, who does the exact same thing when Hollywood wants to use any part of the DoD[1].

It shouldn't happen in either case, but it does. And this US Attorney General isn't a relevant neutral source for this message. It just looks like he's making a political statement from a White House that is in the middle of a multi-faceted trade war negotiation with the same entities being criticized here. Also note that this US Attorney General's office is the one which is seeking extradition of the CFO of Huawei[2] from Canada which has been verbally acknowledged by Barr's boss as negotiation leverage in the trade war.

> I suspect Walt Disney would be disheartened to see how the company he founded deals with the foreign dictatorships of our day

Walt Disney was politically hard right after the US entered WW2 and joined the Second Red Scare on the side of Senator McCarthy. I honestly don't care what he would say today.

Also worth nothing that Ronald Reagan was also a movie propagandist for the US Army in WW2 and was another loud voice like Senator McCarthy during the Second Red Scare. It was the moral panic / cancel culture of its day.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-entertainment_complex

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou#Detention

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney

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