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When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

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Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#191
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planet Money had an episode on such metrics[0] The host shares a personal story from time when he was a cashier. The grocery chain measured performance as items scanned per minute and shared internal leaderboard. Some items are hard to scan so the cashiers ended up skipping scanning them – so the store gave them away for free. But the managers were happy about their KPIs. (Look how many items are we suddenly selling…

I heard about a call center that rewarded customer service agents for short calls, so workers started immediately hanging up on some calls to bring their average call duration down.

I swear this happened to me with Grubhub. I had a problem with my order and used their chat. After I wrote my problem the agent replied with a standard answer and then immediately:

"Is there anything else I can help you with?"

And then immediately after that:

"No, ok I will close this chat."

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#192
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are you to know who is doing good work or not? If managers are not involved, they should have no say.

People do reliably know which of their co-workers are good and which of their co-workers suck badly. But also, the rule of 150 applies here. At a startup with less than 100 people, each worker often has an idea of everyone's strength, throughout the company. However, if you are at a big company, with thousands of employees in multiple locations, then it is often best to restrict upvoting to some subset of the company…

> "Because, if you believe people can not evaluate their co-workers, then you must disagree with the above article."

The article includes that there are times when you can't evaluate your coworkers and don't realise that you can't, when it says: "giving someone the wrong “level” of compliment. For example, if they’re a very senior engineer and you say something like “PERSON did SIMPLE_ROUTINE_TASK really well!” — that doesn’t reflect well on them and feels condescending. This can happen if you don’t know the person’s position or don’t understand the expectations for their role.".

You might think you know their role and expectations of it, but they might disagree - and their manager might disagree. Your position seems to be "vote on people you know, once per time period", and the article's position seems to be "feedback on anyone who does good work, any time, with their permission"

Your system will lead to:

1. You know more about people you work closely with, than others.

2. From them, you will have opinions about who does good work.

3. When it comes to voting time, you are incentivised to put that aside and vote in a way that keeps you with people whose company you enjoy, not people who objectively contribute most to the company goals, as a manager would see it. Because you have a limited number of votes, and votes exist as a rating for promotions and firings.

4. Managers have no idea why some people were voted for, or whether the people voted on think it's a fair vote.

The article's system will lead to:

1. You see any piece of good work which catches your eye.

2. You approach the coworker and talk to them, when you might not otherwise have done so, ask permission and explain why you think it's worth feedback, building connections between employees.

3. Managers get smaller, more frequent, feedback with explanations and know that the coworker agrees with this judgement of their work. Managers know who sent the feedback and whether they trust your judgment.

4. While the people you feedback on are affected by it, it's nowhere near as direct as 1 vote -> your only influence on the result, so you can afford to be more generous and less self-interested.

Other differences between the article and your suggested approach: you are not limited to 3 votes when sending feedback, you can feedback on as many people as you like. If you send feedback as and when it happens, you're less affected by recency bias from the last few days before voting day. You aren't obligated to send any feedback, but you are obligated to vote for 3 people, even if you think you have only 1, or 5 good coworkers.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a massive amount of trust placed in managers. I've had asshole managers before that didn't have this much power thanks to company structure. Honestly I would never work at a place like this. Maybe it's lean and efficient for the company, but it definitely doesn't sound fun for the employee.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Yes, it certainly happens and it sucks for the good person that it happens to. But managers like that don't last very long. When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but…

When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned

Why would anyone give any kind of useful information in the exit interview? The only one who benefits is the company, they need to cover their back in case a suit over harassment comes up. If anyone wants revenge over poor management, keep silent, let the fellow continue to lose the company money and set them up for a lawsuit.

HR is not on your side. The company is not on your side. The union would be, but in software we can't have that.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until November 2013 Microsoft used stack ranking.

Doesn’t Microsoft, as well as almost all other large software companies, still do almost the same thing by having a fixed distribution of ratings that needs to be met under some organizational unit? IE under each director of 100 people you have 5 A+, 25 A, 30 B, 30 C, 5 D, 5F?

When people talk about stack ranking they are often referring to the most toxic part of the classic system, forced firing of the bottom ranked X% (usually around 10% per year)

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a massive amount of trust placed in managers. I've had asshole managers before that didn't have this much power thanks to company structure. Honestly I would never work at a place like this. Maybe it's lean and efficient for the company, but it definitely doesn't sound fun for the employee.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Yes, it certainly happens and it sucks for the good person that it happens to. But managers like that don't last very long. When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but…

> When you get let go

I'm sorry for going a bit offtopic, but I have noticed this weird linguistic contortion "get let go" often. Why the euphemisms? You get fired. It doesn't hurt to speak plainly. This "let go" expression seems weirdly childish, like how people say that someone "passed on" to avoid confronting the hard reality of death.

And I'm not picking on you, I know that almost everyone talks like this now.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can giving praise hurt you?

If the company's unofficial policy is that if someone gets a high rating on the team, then someone else must be given a low rating to balance that out, even if they don't deserve it.

Thanks, I haven’t experienced that. How painful. I agree with other posters here when I read about your problem in these comments. Personally I think of my manager and performance review more as symptoms or results of a process, rather than the source of anything. Promoting myself - Github, LinkedIn, trainings and brown bag sessions for my coworkers, program completion emails, those are part of my job just as much as personal learning, architectural planning, and writing code. In fact because I don’t want to fear for my job, they are almost more important. Perhaps it’s not the ideal. But it’s the job description. There are so many pluses to what is essentially a god-level nine to five grind: freedom, intellectual work, lots of money and benefits, etc. I just accept that some of these non-ideal extras are part of my deal. Hope I’m not preaching, trying to help.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a massive amount of trust placed in managers. I've had asshole managers before that didn't have this much power thanks to company structure. Honestly I would never work at a place like this. Maybe it's lean and efficient for the company, but it definitely doesn't sound fun for the employee.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Yes, it certainly happens and it sucks for the good person that it happens to. But managers like that don't last very long. When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but…

That still sounds pretty bad. The person who fired you getting fired doesn't get you your job back.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t Microsoft, as well as almost all other large software companies, still do almost the same thing by having a fixed distribution of ratings that needs to be met under some organizational unit? IE under each director of 100 people you have 5 A+, 25 A, 30 B, 30 C, 5 D, 5F?

Not to mention that there is a fixed budget, and so they can only promote so many people in a given period, as rewards are tied to promotions. That means that even if there are many top performers, they have to determine which ones aren't as "top" as others. This inherently creates a stack. Whoops.

There is always a fixed budget, so at some level stacking has to occur. Whether that's at the individual level, or team, project, department, business unit, etc. Unfortunately at some level politics / perception / who speaks the loudest always comes into play.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the number of people that are let go is overexaggerated. But yes, it is easy to fire and hire . The two go hand in hand.

My coworker was a product manager at Netflix and she said in a 2 year period she saw at least 20 engineers get fired. That seems pretty high to me.

Probably depends on team and circumstances. In my ~3 years there I've only seen a handful of engineers I interact with (which was a lot) get fired.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#200
There should be a systematic way to collect and periodically highlight accomplishments and those who contributed to those (quarterly, monthly). A lead should be able to produce that information (with input from the team, all in one room face to face), and it should be published in a common place (where everyone else has read-only rights, or changes can be tracked) for managers and higher-ups to see.
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