Deschooling Society (1970) • Hacker News Board

Re: Deschooling Society (1970)

#201

Post by Ericson2314 » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

CM30 wrote: post #188

Ericson2314 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Illich's criticisms of car culture pushed him outside the Overton window of policy making. Then or now? Cars being terrible and destroying society is not a fringe view in many places.

It's a fringe view in most of them. Sure, quite a few people in many places don't drive or feel the need to, but I suspect if you asked the population at large what they thought of cars as an concept/invention/technology, they'd be at worst neutral to them, and often see the positive side. I know for sure that most people around here either drive or want to, and that many peope consider it unthinkable to not do so. T…

It's common in certain cities. More in Europe than US. But more among US urban politicians than perhaps even their constituents (which is why the GP about public policy is silly).

US major cities I'd wager is like even split between politicians that like cars, politicians that dislike cars but are too scared to do anything about it, and politicians that dislike cars and aren't scared.

Here's to hoping we get more Ada Colau and less Bill de Blasio.

Re: Deschooling Society (1970)

#202

Post by rednerrus » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 12:56 AM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #154

wittyreference wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an engineer and military officer that made a career of writing, was active in real estate and silver mining and politics, knowing not a single other thing about him, I assume (and I am, admittedly, erring a little on the side of generosity in my assumptions, but my goal is to aim for "is it plausible?" not "did he definitely?"): -to change a diaper -plan an invasion (navy officer) -butcher a hog -conn a ship (navy…

That list really irritates me. > - to change a diaper Ok? What if one never intends to have kids. > -plan an invasion For goodness' sake, why is that important outside of the military? > -butcher a hog Irrelevant to most people. > -conn a ship So? Are we in the navy or maritime service? A gent in Montana has no need of this, > -design a building Design, engineer, or build? > -write a sonnet Popular for schoolchildren…

The point is that we should have the ability to be self-reliant and shouldn’t rely on school or government to set the agenda for what’s important to learn. Make your own list. Step outside the bounds of what your job is and learn some other skills. Build a deck, drift a car, deploy containers in k8s, make jam, grow a garden, fight city hall, etc. The list is irrelevant just make one.

Re: Deschooling Society (1970)

#203

Post by Jash_Keyo » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 1:26 PM UTC

I read Deschooling Society after taking a job at a school that is modeled after The Sudbury Valley School in MA. I agree with the critique about the design and function of school in our society, and think that democratic self directed education is a viable starting point for a future educative system. At the school I work at, we have created a democratic community that is focused on learning as opposed to teaching. Kids are able to learn whatever they would like without interference or coercion. The rules and limitations are decided by the community according to democratic principles. It is the best example of a functional educational environment whose goal is true education that I have encountered so far.

I would also recommend people check out "Energy and Equity", I was impressed and influenced by the assertion that energy consumption is an important window to understanding class and society. The idea that we could have chosen to increase all human's speed to 20mph, but have instead allowed a small minority to travel at 70 mph, and an even smaller minority to travel at nearly 600 mph, has deeply influenced my view of structural inequality and violence.

Re: Deschooling Society (1970)

#204

Post by danans » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 7:35 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #145

danans wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also consider that it's not as impressive a list as it rhetorically seems. If you spit into a crowd of people at least 30 years old, you'll probably hit a person who has done at least 10 of them, maybe more.

Also he doesn't say a human should have done all of them, only that they should be able to .

Which is an even lower bar, is it not?

Re: Deschooling Society (1970)

#205

Post by alexashka » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

voidhorse wrote: post #171

alexashka wrote: post #119

I wish people would think about the format they use to present their ideas more. If you're presenting arguments based on empirical evidence and logic, you are building a directed graph. Using long-winded prose to represent it is the wrong data structure, which makes working with it (comprehending and contemplating its merits) difficult.

That’s effectively what Wittgenstein was saying in the Tractatus , only to turn around and repudiate all of it in the Philosophical Investigations —at the end of the day, logical systems based on the manipulations of symbols are one thing while the messy reality of being human and living is quite another.

> logical systems based on the manipulations of symbols are one thing while the messy reality of being human and living is quite another.

There has to be a lot of overlap, or else we wouldn't bother with logic and coherence in our everyday lives :)

If we want predictive powers that we can communicate and play with, logic systems seem to be the best practical tool we've come up with.