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When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

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Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#91

Post by parliament32 »

GEBBL wrote: post #72

I hate the fact that in my current role, I am expected to give my colleagues ‘constructive feedback’. It seems like a minefield , when I am trying to focus on my own role, that I have to negotiate the feelings of a colleague as I leave feedback on them. I’d prefer to leave only positive feedback, but what my boss wants is that I need to find an improvement that my colleague has to make. I don’t like it.

I've found PRP to be a godsend when you're expected to give "feedback". PRP is praise-reprimand-praise: so construct your comment where your negative feedback is sandwiched between two positive feedback items. People respond well to it.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#92

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

ar_lan wrote: post #30
ping_pong wrote: post #17

This is the biggest problem with stack ranking software engineers, the practice I had to endure while at a well known software company. All it does is create a zero-sum game, so I have no incentive to compliment anyone else. I needed to make sure that my rank was as high as I could make it, which really sucked during performance time. It was very stressful, even though I was a high performer, because it didn't foster…

Humans have proven time and time again that we are very good at optimizing for specific metrics, and apparently generally very poor at choosing the right metrics to target. School is a prime example, in my opinion - there is so much I "learned" in school that I'll never remember, because I didn't take a proper approach to learning - I just optimized for grades. I had a 4.7 GPA and could hardly tell you a thing about…

One cannot overstate this and human capability to optimize for metrics ( and what is apparently rewarded ). Anecdote time. My former manager had an idea to measure the amount of average alerts per hour and tore into people, whose values fell below a certain treshold. What did people do? They stopped doing harder alerts whenever they could and did 'easy ones' to pump up their stats. I have seen it since and whenever I do, I have a quick talk about people not being idiots and importance of metrics not being used for evaluation ( or if you do, to be ready for its consequences ). In case you are wondering, former's managers response was to double down and hide the stats so that people don't know where they stand.. eh.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#93

Post by strulovich »

ping_pong wrote: post #17

This is the biggest problem with stack ranking software engineers, the practice I had to endure while at a well known software company. All it does is create a zero-sum game, so I have no incentive to compliment anyone else. I needed to make sure that my rank was as high as I could make it, which really sucked during performance time. It was very stressful, even though I was a high performer, because it didn't foster…

I've been working at Facebook for a while now, and I think the environment is competitive, and you do need to shine in front of endless talent, but doing so doesn't mean numbers.

Sadly, many people who don't do well take their feedback to mean that they need more code commits or comments. Some of them might even succeed at gaming the system for a short while due to a bad manager. The truth from my experience is that as long as you drive meaningful impact, and are able to convince you manager and others of it, you will be doing well. Falling back to silly stat numbers is the toolset of people who don't have enough achievements. In a way, good numbers don't mean good performance. But bad performance really does correlate with bad numbers. So people who are unhappy with their ratings will deduce that is the problem. It's aggravated by the fact people with good ratings don't boast about it (which is considered rude). I've noticed similar effects in college with grades. Judging by the vocal people one could assume the majority of the class failed at the exam, since whoever succeed will do well to not rub in their friends' faces)

* Personally I do use numbers in reviews, but only as a secondary way to backup my claims for what I did, or why it was important

* * If you are convinced that your manager and team only cares about stats, I recommend switching to another team or company when you have the opportunity.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#94

Post by vidarh »

duxup wrote: post #90
vidarh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be extremely demoralising for co-workers in all kinds of roles when they see that kind of recognition being given to someone who they feel don't deserve it. Personally I think it's risky to acknowledge these kind of things in front of a team for that reason unless it's better quantified. I've personally as well been in situations where I've been outright resentful because the recognition of someone I knew was…

A while back I thought I had read something that indicated that merit based recognition was often a point of contention. But random rewards, that were acknowledged to be random actually raised morale across the board, even among those who didn't get it. The 'reasons' and so forth are often a big deal to people.

That wouldn't surprise me. A a merit based reward that feels like it wasn't justified and given for "political reasons" or what have you gives those who feel overlooked every reason to assume they don't stand a chance at all, and a reason to be angry. It's hard to be get angry or annoyed at random chance.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#95

Post by opportune »

GEBBL wrote: post #72

I hate the fact that in my current role, I am expected to give my colleagues ‘constructive feedback’. It seems like a minefield , when I am trying to focus on my own role, that I have to negotiate the feelings of a colleague as I leave feedback on them. I’d prefer to leave only positive feedback, but what my boss wants is that I need to find an improvement that my colleague has to make. I don’t like it.

Constructive feedback and most other negative feedback is really aspirational at the company level. It sounds good for HR to try to say it’s a company “value” and to encode it in reviews. In reality it’s never ever worth it to give constructive feedback to peers or upward (downward is OK). It’s bad for social dynamics, cohesion, and morale, especially when it’s formalized as part of some review process. It’s essentially a trap - the only way to win is to not participate or to give very mild feedback.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#96

Post by splatcollision »

You should do this in general public situations where possible too: Got great service at a restaurant or store? Ask to talk to their manager. When their manager comes over, complement the person who was awesome!

My wife does this regularly and it's always amazing to see people's faces drop at the first manager request, then shine when they realize what's going on :)

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#97

Post by freehunter »

KitDuncan wrote: post #74
benlumen wrote: post #15

While we're at it - when someone you manage does great work - tell your manager. I do this out of professional decency, not social justice (angle of the article).

Just in general say thank you more often. It helps a lot with team morale.

This is something I’ve struggled with over the years, ever since I started as an engineer. I want the problem solved and when it’s solved we move on to the next one. No chit chat, no feelings, just get the work done. It really helped that at the beginning of my career I was on a brand new team and we were defining how to solve these problems. There was no one more senior or more knowledgeable to ask.

As I became more senior and had junior employees working alongside me, I could see how quickly they would get frustrated when they couldn’t perform at my level. They’d be stuck for days until they ask me for help, and I’d solve the problem in 5 minutes and for a couple of our new guys, that crushed them. Absolutely destroyed their morale.

So I read a few books on emotional intelligence and social interactions and started explicitly saying when someone was doing something right, or calling out where they did their job well while fixing the place where they made a mistake. When someone helps me, I now say “thank you, I appreciate your help”.

It’s night and day. Junior employees wanted to work with me before I did that because they want to learn from me, but now they actually like working with me. I don’t heap on praise and I don’t give praise when it’s not deserved, but when someone legitimately does something right or helps me (no matter how small), I actively tell them with words that I appreciate their help and that they did good work.

It’s the absolute least I can do but it makes a world of difference for people just starting out when a senior staff member compliments their work.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#98

Post by jarvelov »

mkagenius wrote: post #54
benlumen wrote: post #15

While we're at it - when someone you manage does great work - tell your manager. I do this out of professional decency, not social justice (angle of the article).

And they should tell their manager, word should reach the ceo.

Depends on the size of the organization. It is important for management to be aware of the achievements, and sometimes a CEO also has that role. Knowing who knows what and who did what is important regardless of your position, but especially in a management position.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#99

Post by vp8989 »

ravenstine wrote: post #20

While I really like the sentiment, I think there's a reason why people naturally don't provide much positive feedback about individuals at workplaces. What do you really get by pointing out the good work of a coworker? A warm fuzzy feeling, to be sure. Maybe greater comradeship. But wait, who's the next person to get a promotion? Maybe it'll be the person you keep praising to management. So you'll probably have to wo…

Positive feedback can be a good way to reinforce behaviors in your team mates that you want to see more of. For example, you wish that people on the team tested their changes thoroughly before opening a PR.

If you mention that, you will be seen as whiny and a complainer. But if you praise someone who does it, well now you're being positive. Both things have the same effect, in that they communicate that you want people to do more of a certain behavior ... but they are perceived differently by others in the group.

It has the same effect the other way. If you generally provide positive feedback for good work and someone does mediocre work. Your lack of feedback is noticed, without you actually sticking your neck out and saying anything negative.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager

#100

Post by opportune »

giantg2 wrote: post #77
t-writescode wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t believe that about yourself for a second. I regularly scored low marks at a previous company of mine; and, even during one review, I got a ‘you improved a lot! But your coworkers improved even more, so you’re getting a [low rank] again.’ I’ve since moved on to different positions at different companies and am doing plenty fine. I’m even the senior member on a new team I’m joining now. A few bad years or even ma…

I once had a manager give me an FDN rating and when I asked what I can do to improve she told me "just keep doing what you're doing".

I’ve been told this several times when I’ve asked what I could do to get a higher rating or promotion. It always meant that there was some tenure element to the rankings. I think from the manager’s perspective they are being both honest and reassuring, but from the report’s perspective, it’s very frustrating knowing your progress is being limited, and hard work wasted, due to some bureaucratic limitation. And knowing that in practice it’s possible for exceptions to be made and it’s possible your manager isn’t advocating strongly enough for you.
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