Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress • Hacker News Board

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#231

Post by jmole » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

ditonal wrote: post #212

twojacobtwo wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked into the possibility that you have ADD/ADHD? I ask because your description sounds spot on for how I have felt throughout life. The 'fog', lack of motivation, and sensitivity to even the slightest stimulus especially ring true. When I first took medication for ADD, I felt like I had been driving through a downpour my whole life and finally discovered the window-wipers - the storm didn't stop, but I co…

It's very common for people on HN to tout the benefits of their ADHD diagnosis and I feel compelled to point out that getting on ADHD meds was one of the worst mistakes of my life. They triggered a manic episode. The psychiatrist solutions to all my problems was always more meds, different meds, etc. I've mentioned this a few times and I'm always accused of abusing them but the truth is I took a small dose as prescri…

Do you (or parent, or GP) have allergies or food allergies by any chance?

I recently did a ~7 day liquid elemental diet [0], followed by a 3 day fast, and at the end of the fast I was more mentally acute and more lucid or "present" than I have ever felt in my life.

The results were far better than any medication or treatment I've ever tried. Unfortunately, re-feeding brought me back to the same state I've known for all of my life.

[0] - https://www.siboinfo.com/uploads/5/4/8/4/5484269/homemade_el...

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#232

Post by RHSeeger » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

bserge wrote: post #189

RHSeeger wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This idea of "don't say it's a machine, you're oversimplifying it" is what's harmful in my eyes. And honestly, there's a lot of complexity to even the smallest thing. A particularly good read, "I, Pencil" goes into how nobody knows how to make even a simple pencil. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/I,_Pencil

I agree, but that seems like a poor example. I could make a pencil out of coal and wood. Wouldn't be as good as a factory one, but good enough. Also, chalk and many other stones/minerals can be used.

Yes and no. The story is more about how that specific (type of) pencil was made, and no single person knows all of it. Even things that we consider simple ... really aren't.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#233

Post by toomanybeersies » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

ditonal wrote: post #212

twojacobtwo wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked into the possibility that you have ADD/ADHD? I ask because your description sounds spot on for how I have felt throughout life. The 'fog', lack of motivation, and sensitivity to even the slightest stimulus especially ring true. When I first took medication for ADD, I felt like I had been driving through a downpour my whole life and finally discovered the window-wipers - the storm didn't stop, but I co…

It's very common for people on HN to tout the benefits of their ADHD diagnosis and I feel compelled to point out that getting on ADHD meds was one of the worst mistakes of my life. They triggered a manic episode. The psychiatrist solutions to all my problems was always more meds, different meds, etc. I've mentioned this a few times and I'm always accused of abusing them but the truth is I took a small dose as prescri…

As a counter point, being diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed medication was one of the best things to have ever happened to me. Everybody is different though, medication is beneficial for some and detrimental for others. It's important to be aware of your mental state and how treatment (whether drugs or other) affects it, and to be able to make informed choices regarding treatment. A good doctor/shrink should take into consideration your feedback and act accordingly. Bad doctors will just push pills on to you. This is why I'm deadset against prescribing stimulant medication to children, it's easy (and common) for doctors and parents to basically force feed their kids amphetamines, often causing them great harm (I also believe that it stops children from learning proper ADHD management strategies, leading to them being completely incapable of functioning without medication or illicit drugs)

Meditation and yoga do nothing for me. Seeing a counsellor has been good though, and I think that its something that everybody should do, regardless of neurotype or how well they appear to be functioning in life.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#234

Post by seesawtron » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

rumanator wrote: post #214

seesawtron wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes of course. He is talking about the people who have been "normlised" to be what the society or those in power need them to be: the masses who never oppose their governments, the people who give up their individuality to pursue a career to buy things they might not need, and so on. It is a reflection on those people who are NOT in distress but they ought to be rather than be ignorant.

> the people who give up their individuality to pursue a career to buy things they might not need Everyone I met who placed all their chips in pursuing a career were pretty much expressing their individuality. It just so happened that their individuality helped them thrive in a particular environment. And you'd be surprised how material wealth, including as a status symbol, helps people express their individuality.

Sure I agree there are people who do that as well.

That reminds me of the propaganda movement from Edward Bernays [0] how he profited the industry by convincing people that they need to buy material things (for example, new fashionable clothes) to express their individuality.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnPmg0R1M04

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#235

Post by danans » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #205

danans wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted The myth/ideal of being "fully human" is an example of essentialism, and is one the techniques that authors like Huxley and many from his era employed. It preys upon the inner authoritarian desire to normalize the world for oneself above all else, even though ironically Huxley opposed authoritarianism himself. A different take is that people's mental he…

> one the techniques that authors like Huxley and many from his era employed No, it's one of the beliefs they held. The weasel phrasing "technique (...) that they employed" means they didn't believe in those, but used them cunningly to dupe people. Second, merely saying "is an example of essentialism" doesn't solve anything, as if the case for essentialism or not is a solved one and we should now dump it. It's just a…

> Without a degree of essentialism, that is, an idea of what is normal and what a person/society should strive for, you can accept anything.

Essentialism is a tool, at most a particular lens that should be viewed through, but what is seen should not taken as a truth, but only a highly filtered and downsampled representation of it. Essentialism is also what kept slavery justified (under the theory that Africans were "essentially" fit for forced labor), before a different essentialism took over.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#236

Post by Johnjonjoan » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

danans wrote: post #226

Johnjonjoan wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean to imply that all technology is "dehumanising" but I'd argue that most if not all that influences you has done something to your humanity/technology balance. Fully human being is very hard to explain. According to my knowledge of Huxley is that it's someone who has essentially reached an ego state that has certain values(life, beauty, suffering). All is each which is all. I think if you haven't really d…

> Fully human being is very hard to explain. According to my knowledge of Huxley is that it's someone who has essentially reached an ego state that has certain values(life, beauty, suffering). All is each which is all. Defining fully human as being in the nihilistic ego-destroyed state where differentiation between the Self and all existence is nullified is another fictional ideal. Huxley himself borrowed from easter…

I would argue that when Huxley said that realising all is each is all he didn't intend you to lose your ego. In my opinion he intended you to realise that there is power in the self and that everyone has a self and therefore there is a universal ego that we would call humanity.

But I suppose every proverb is a platitude..

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#237

Post by everly » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

This, along with some of the comments here, reminded me of a short passage from a profile on Tupac Shakur, in which the author wrote:

"He feels his mania is what we all have and deny, that insanity is a rational adjustment to an insane world." [0]

[0] https://www.spin.com/2017/06/tupac-birthday-danyel-smith/

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#238

Post by agumonkey » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

seesawtron wrote: post #154

agumonkey wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried going back to normal life but 6 weeks were enough to erode my mind way too deep.

I think the challenging part is definition of "normal life". The burden of fitting in with the "norms" of the society by suppressing your own internal beliefs for the short-term gratification of feeling normal comes back to bite you in the long-term. Over the centuries the society has mostly been unaccommodating to those who fall on the tails of this normal distribution, ostracizing them, punishing them, so on and so…

Not only self repression but also navigating the web of frail, shallow opinions and antagonistic emotions (granted the workplace under consideration is not a place of friendship) leading to non sense most of the time. It's not a place of truth.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#239

Post by controversy » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

cj wrote: post #185

Johnjonjoan wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Human beings as you say are products of their circumstances and one circumstance that seems very pervasive is technology. We are no longer fully human beings. Technology had changed what it is to be human even in Huxley's time; nowadays I wonder has AI already taken over? The prevalence of computer run algorithms in human beings decision making seems to imply it has started at least.

Technology has definitely changed what it is to be human. But I don’t think that means what we are today is less human than before. Technology is a very powerful tool we created. But so was the “invention” of the wheel.

“To be human” is a soft phrase. What does that mean? It appears to assume an standard. The purpose of that appears to be to pull a no true Scotsman.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#240

Post by nathan_compton » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

realharo wrote: post #166

nathan_compton wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is either very specific and thus not all that applicable to biological systems (that is, the current state is typically much much much more dominant a determinant of future time evolution in biological systems than in machines) or so general as to characterize literally any physical phenomenon whatsoever, and thus hardly useful to think about how biological systems work specifically. Indeed, one element emphasiz…

I see. Do you think a machine that physically alters its own silicon, or software that rewrites its code instead of storing data, would be closer to biological systems? Or is that part irrelevant?

My personal opinion is that that would be true in more or less the same way that colder gases are more like solids.