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Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

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Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#421

Post by dhosek »

kerkeslager wrote: post #395
dhosek wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're paying cash you're not paying anything to the credit card companies. What you are doing is subsidizing my rewards cash back by giving the merchant a slightly higher margin on your purchases so allowing them to charge slightly less on my credit card purchase. Or else you're just giving them extra money and that's the end of it.

> If you're paying cash you're not paying anything to the credit card companies. What you are doing is subsidizing my rewards cash back Please think through how pedantic this "correction" would be even if the credit card company were charitably passing all their fees to you as cash back, which I assure you, they are not doing.

No, the point is that when you pay cash, you give more money to the merchant than I do. This enables the merchant to charge me less than they might if all their purchases were by credit card (although not necessarily—I remember reading somewhere that when Wendy's started accepting credit card payment, they saw their average purchase total go up. I know when I published a magazine, the percentage that I paid to the credit card processors for payments was worth the effort of not having to deal with paper checks—taking them to the bank for deposit, having the potential of getting hit with a fee if a check bounced, etc.), so your cash payment is subsidizing my convenience and cash back. The parent comment seemed to imply that the merchant paid a percentage to the credit card companies whether customers paid cash or credit.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#422

Post by patrickmcmanus »

hinkley wrote: post #171

The Japanese 'penny' is (was?) made of aluminum. It looked less like currency and more like a token from a deluxe version of a board game. It was just too insubstantial. As we've moved to zinc with a thinner and thinner copper jacket the US penny has drifted in that direction, but the relief is much more pronounced and makes it look more 'real'. Probably more expensive to make though.

a 1 yen coin has a mass of 1 gram - which can be handy for measuring stuff.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#423

Post by drapery »

efa wrote: post #355
drapery wrote: post #332

One time I was in Krogers and saw a man buying 6 onions with nickels, dimes, pennies. He took a long time but he bought his onions. I personally don't care one way or another but those who miss the penny the most, won't likely get a voice.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying getting rid of the penny would hurt poor people?

Yeah pretty much. Most of the poor are unbanked and every penny counts.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#424

Post by Dylan16807 »

jakeogh wrote: post #420
Dylan16807 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gap between a sales tax and an income tax is not that big. It's not a human rights issue.

Why would the gap be relevant? Perhaps we should ignore a small % of X Amendment claims? That would be a small gap right? The Amendments dont confer rights to the people; they only remind the people of the things they gov has no power to do. See Amendment 0: "THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abu…

> Why would the gap be relevant?

Because I can at least understand an argument like "all taxation is theft".

When it's "sales tax is okay, but income tax violates innate rights", that's a pretty finicky argument. The difference barely matters.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#425

Post by kerkeslager »

dhosek wrote: post #421
kerkeslager wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're paying cash you're not paying anything to the credit card companies. What you are doing is subsidizing my rewards cash back Please think through how pedantic this "correction" would be even if the credit card company were charitably passing all their fees to you as cash back, which I assure you, they are not doing.

No, the point is that when you pay cash, you give more money to the merchant than I do. This enables the merchant to charge me less than they might if all their purchases were by credit card (although not necessarily—I remember reading somewhere that when Wendy's started accepting credit card payment, they saw their average purchase total go up. I know when I published a magazine, the percentage that I paid to the cr…

I understand what you were saying. I'm saying it's exactly the same thing.

Let's say there are 3 customers who each buy a $98 item at a retailer: customers A, B, and C.

If all three paid with cash, the retailer would receive $294, so the net change would be:

    Retailer: +$294
    Customer A: -$98
    Customer B: -$98
    Customer C: -$98
But they don't all pay in cash: customer A pays cash, customer B pays with a card that gets 1% cash back, customer C pays with a card that doesn't get cash back. They all buy a $98 item at a retailer.

The credit card company charges 3% in fees, or ~$3 for each of the CC customers, so the retailer is now making $288. So they raise the price of the item to $100. Now all three customers are paying $100 each, the retailer is making $294 again, and the credit card company is making $6. Customer B has a card that gets 1% cash, so they receive $1. Now the net change is:

    Retailer: +$294
    CC: +$5
    Customer A: -$100
    Customer B: -$99
    Customer C: -$100
Now, the way I'm summarizing this situation, is customers A and C have each given $2 to the credit card company, and customer B has given $1 to the credit card company.

You're saying, customers A, B, and C have given $2 to the credit card company, and customer A (the one paying in cash) has given $1 to customer B (the one receiving cash back). That's technically not wrong--it's certainly a way to represent the cash flow that gets you to the same place--but it's a pedantic, inane difference, and it certainly isn't a "correction".

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#426

Post by jakeogh »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #424
jakeogh wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the gap be relevant? Perhaps we should ignore a small % of X Amendment claims? That would be a small gap right? The Amendments dont confer rights to the people; they only remind the people of the things they gov has no power to do. See Amendment 0: "THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abu…

> Why would the gap be relevant? Because I can at least understand an argument like "all taxation is theft". When it's "sales tax is okay, but income tax violates innate rights", that's a pretty finicky argument. The difference barely matters.

Inalienable rights and differences in outcome are unrelated things, hence mentioning tariffs as protection by attack with slave labor. It's the primary job of a government to protect it's borders, physically and economically.

As that documentary nicely lays out, there is no constitutional law that anyone can point to on individual income tax. The IRS commissioner admits it.

Recent interview with former IRS agent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXua-6xr_Kw

She asks in the beginning, "At what percentage is it not slavery?"

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#428

Post by nix23 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #393
nix23 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All else fails, toss them in the trash as I leave the store That Joe is a BIG Asshole move.

? How can this affect you at all? Is this some projection of insecurity? Remember <$1 in change would buy ... almost nothing. Some gum? 20 minutes on a parking meter?

Not much for you, quite allot for others.

>Remember A meal for 80% of the world population, additionally you trow perfect medal away...you know that stuff that could be recycled, really shame on You.

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