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Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

psyche.co

31–40 of 396 posts

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#31
> In promoting a biogenetic causal theory, anti-stigma campaigners – as well as psychiatrists, the popular media, and others – hoped to convince people that mental illnesses are ‘just like’ other chronic physical ailments, such as ‘heart disease or diabetes’, to quote the APA, and could be medically addressed.

We're very caught up in naturalistic thinking. Speaking of a soul or the mind is frivolous at best, and superstitious at worst. But look where this way of thinking has brought us.

The brain and the heart are two different organs. But while we can use science to gain an understanding of the brain, the mind is understood by philosophy and religion.

Case in point, I once asked a friend of mine if he could prove that he loved his wife. He said if he were able to freeze time, and gain knowledge of every synapse, every chemical reaction, every electrical potential -- he could definitively prove that he loved his wife, and she loved him.

"When you get home," I responded, "remember to duck when you tell your wife you want to go have her brain scanned to prove she loves you."

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#32
post #11

I find the chemical imbalance metaphor for mental illness the opposite of empowering and an easy well to sell pharmaceuticals. There is some truth to the metaphor, but I wonder if it’s doing more harm than good.

If you have been close to a psychotic person who refuses to take antipsychotic medication (a common enough problem that I have faced with multiple people), the "just trying to sell drugs" story gets old very fast. A lot of people really do need the drugs in order to stop harming themselves.

I think this article does a disservice by suggesting that people on such drugs are trying to get over a minor breakup. And actually that does a disservice to very depressed people and somewhat misunderstands them too. (There is also such thing as psychosis in severe depression, btw.)

It might be true that a trauma and stress that appears benign to someone else triggers such a terrible condition. But once the sufferer gets stuck in that loop... The drugs are very often the best idea available. Avoiding them can be harmful to the health of the sufferer.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#33

they struggled against the dehumanising notion that their thoughts, feelings or behaviour were mechanistically caused. Finally, a thread where I can point out my own experiences. Around four years ago, it would be fair to call me slightly crazy. It was a harmless sort of crazy, but it was quite self-destructive. I used to wake up wishing to die, genuinely, and not knowing why. All of that changed after going on Proza…

> All of that changed after going on Prozac. I don't know why, and I've heard from many others that Prozac was harmful to them.

SSRIs are some of the most widely-used medications. Tens of millions of people in the United States alone use SSRIs regularly with good results.

No medication is perfect, obviously, and at scale we're bound to see a percentage of people have negative experiences. The problem is that when tens of millions of people have tried SSRIs, even 1% significantly negative reactions adds up to a very large number of people. If 1% of those negative reactions make a point of blasting their negative experience all over the internet, we'll see thousands of negative reports everywhere.

Combine this with the fact that few people are willing to publicly admit that SSRIs helped them, and the bias toward negative reviews online is huge.

SSRIs are a particularly difficult topic, because they have a noticeable treatment lag (can take up to 1-2 months for positive effects, with positive effects increasing up to 6 months out) and can, in some cases, temporarily worsen symptoms during the initial ramp-up period.

Even more difficult, not all SSRIs are the same. It might take 2-3 trials before someone finds the SSRI that works best for them. It might also take several dose adjustments to find the right tradeoff between efficacy and side effects. Unfortunately, many people go online and seek out horror stories before they have a chance to go through a few rounds of medication adjustments to make it work for them.

Thanks for sharing your positive success story online. SSRIs aren't for everyone, but it would be a shame for people to spend years suffering from depression when a few SSRI trials might reveal an easy improvement to their lives. Worst case, they can taper off (tapering helps avoid discontinuation effects) and move on to different treatment avenues.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#34

they struggled against the dehumanising notion that their thoughts, feelings or behaviour were mechanistically caused. Finally, a thread where I can point out my own experiences. Around four years ago, it would be fair to call me slightly crazy. It was a harmless sort of crazy, but it was quite self-destructive. I used to wake up wishing to die, genuinely, and not knowing why. All of that changed after going on Proza…

That's fantastic you found the right SSRI for you immediately, that's incredibly rare. I second the sentiment that when you find the one for you and everything clicks, it's a truly life-changing experience.

One thing to watch out for with Prozac is diminishing sensitivity in the nether regions, that's probably the biggest reason I tried a few others and transitioned to another medication.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#35

The book "Lost Connections" by Johann Hari (which I discovered through HN) has helped me a lot in understanding so much of the context of what makes so many of us feel depression and anxiety at many points in our lives. A big part of the narrative is that we are too quick to diagnose and provide ourselves with medication without really understanding environmental variables that have impacted our overall well-being. W…

From TFA:

> There is no evidence to justify the continued promotion of one-dimensional theories such as ‘chemical imbalance’.

The Lost Connections book, which I read a few years ago, really helped hit this home for me. Totally made me reconsider my view of depression and treatment.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#36
post #5

>She told me she welcomed the diagnosis of a neurobiological disorder, which confirmed her problem was ‘real’ – brought on by a physiological force external to her volition – and that it showed she’s not ‘just a slacker’. That is such an arbitrary distinction. As if being "just a slacker" doesn't have a number of deeper reasons behind it as well. Brains are just machines at the end of the day, every behavior is a res…

Brains are not machines like your phone is a machine or your car is a machine. They are complex systems and the result of an emergent process rather than designed systems with discrete components.

The analogy that brains are like machines is harmful because it makes it sound like there is some operating manual and simple cause effect relationships that are known. Our knowledge of the brain is in fact very little. It's a false reassurance and reductionist view to see the brain as a machine simply because it is made of material parts that seem to act in a reliable way towards some end.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#37
Not to reduce a complex topic to an aphorism but: if the world is configured in a way thats antagonistic towards you, a negative response is understandable. A lot of this stuff fits neatly into a tradition of blaming people for their conditions that, by and large, they have little control over.

Oh, another aphorism that's always stuck with me is "the difference between 'crazy' and 'eccentric' is a million dollars."

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#38

Rampant inequality ruins everyone's mental health, but not equally and now it's a weird status symbol. - homeless crazy, bad - Some anxiety type A hustler, good - And now: a little depression + access to healthcare "it's just bug", neutral

I dont know if this is true of everyone but I definitely see this in online communities. People who have access to basic health services still blame themselves for their own conditions and seek individual solutions to collective problems :/

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#39
post #11

I find the chemical imbalance metaphor for mental illness the opposite of empowering and an easy well to sell pharmaceuticals. There is some truth to the metaphor, but I wonder if it’s doing more harm than good.

>"There is some truth to the metaphor, but I wonder if it’s doing more harm than good."

In my experience, whether the metaphor does more harm than good really depends on the individual patient.

When faced with the chemical imbalance metaphor, some people will bristle and say they're not "broken." Or they'll feel disempowered because they feel like they can't do anything but take a pill (or three).

---

For others, it lifts a weight off their shoulders. Most people battling with mental illness have struggled and tried various coping mechanisms to feel "normal." The understanding that the issue chemical, not behavioral, lets some people forgive themselves.

Instead of "not being normal enough", the cause is external; it's something they can't just brute force their way out of. Externalizing the issue lets the person stop feeling guilty that they weren't able to solve their own issue. This clears the slate for the person and leads them to a path toward recovery from mental illness.

NOTE: I'm not a doctor. But everyone in my immediate (and most of my extended family has been diagnosed with a chronic mental health issue. So has my wife, our girlfriend, and many others in my life. So it's well-founded anecdotal evidence. And, for what it's worth, I'm in the second cohort I described above.

Re: Let’s avoid talk of ‘chemical imbalance’: it’s people in distress

#40
I've had lots of experience with people struggling with various forms of mental illness.

Their stories are not mine to tell. I've managed to squeak by with just a scoche of "on the spectrum," myself, so I am quite grateful, but I have watched (often in horror), as people have spiraled down.

People suffering from mental illness can often be impossible to help; regardless of how much we want to assist. They need to initiate and maintain their treatment.

There's so much societal "baggage," here. Mentally ill folks can often be profoundly unattractive, and it can be difficult to have empathy for them, or get support for them.

I remember once, walking down the street in the Union Square district of SF, on a business trip. As folks know, SF has a big homeless population, that is growing. We stepped around an obviously mentally ill man, and one of my employees shouted "Get a job!".

Would it were that simple, but his attitude is quite common.

But when treatment works, it can be absolutely miraculous, and worth every second of the pain.

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