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Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

roguelazer.com

621–630 of 648 posts

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#621
post #133

This is one weird comment section. There are people attacking the author for a statement made about CoreOS, and for some hate towards Kubernetes. The key point of the article is not really being addressed here: vested interests from large companies are able to introduce huge complexity into simple, well-designed projects. While the complexity may be good for some end that said vested interest has in mind, they are al…

They haven't gotten to beanstalkd yet...

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#623
post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only compelling alternative to gRPC I am aware of is capnproto (which is derivative, but in some ways nicer) I would argue that while Cap'n Proto's serialization is derivative of Protobuf, the RPC protocol is wildly different from gRPC. > but it has far less eco system maturity and mindshare. That's certainly true. (I'm the author of Cap'n Proto.)

Yes, sorry I was imprecise, it would have been better to have written "derivative of protobuf". To the extent the RPC part is derivative, it's probably mostly derivative of E?

Yep, that I will agree with!

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#624
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also love k8s and agree with the author. K8s gives us declarative infrastructure with eventual reconciliation. That's massive, and there's nothing else around that really does that. I have a hard time taking anyone sesriously that makes the case that k8s is bad that hasn't fully grokked the above.

Disclaimer: I'm was part of the Apache Aurora PMC before the project went into the attic. Not sure what you mean by declarative infrastructure but eventual reconciliation has been implemented in at least one other project (now retired) called Apache Aurora[1] which runs on Apache Mesos[2]. Twitter ran (and probably still runs) a combo of these to huge scale and great success so I don't think it's fair to say that the…

I'm familiar with these having used DCOS a fair bit.

>K8s is great, but we should be careful not to rewrite history.

Why's that? That's kind what tech is all about, no?

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#625
I think this is the problem for open source software. It's not a one size fit all.

We all do complex software and you all know its complexity. Sharding, failover, retry, back off, schema etc...everything in a high scale systems.

The problem is user who used it but doesn't need other features feels frustrated. At the same time, user who used it at scale need feature others don't like? What can we do? I don't know.

A good example is Sentry: https://blog.sentry.io/2019/05/14/sentry-9-1-and-upcoming-ch... Say you are a small single person SaaS? are you going to install ZooKeeper, Kafka, Snuba...No. But they need it...

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#626
post #35

Author is really good at discrediting themselves straight off the bat in one sentence: > for a ~~bullshit~~ unsuccessful project called CoreOS Container Linux that was EOL'd several years ago CoreOS was actually quite successful to me as an outside observer. It had decent paid user base as well as people using it without paying. It has showed people that Chrome OS can be used to build atomically updating host OS with…

The author is talking about keeping things simple which is not a bad idea. I am genuinely interested in why etcd switched to gRPC?

It must speak gRPC before it can be subsumed by systemd. (joking)

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#627
post #35

Author is really good at discrediting themselves straight off the bat in one sentence: > for a ~~bullshit~~ unsuccessful project called CoreOS Container Linux that was EOL'd several years ago CoreOS was actually quite successful to me as an outside observer. It had decent paid user base as well as people using it without paying. It has showed people that Chrome OS can be used to build atomically updating host OS with…

I think he added a sidebar to his web page.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#628
post #146
post #133

This is one weird comment section. There are people attacking the author for a statement made about CoreOS, and for some hate towards Kubernetes. The key point of the article is not really being addressed here: vested interests from large companies are able to introduce huge complexity into simple, well-designed projects. While the complexity may be good for some end that said vested interest has in mind, they are al…

It's a shot across the bow at the Kool-Aid which everyone here has imbibed to some extent. Of course they're going to shoot the messenger. When I clicked this thread I said out loud to my team, "oh, this should be good," and I hadn't even fathomed precisely how predictable the discussion would be. It's so far removed from any consideration that it lands something like explaining to an American that they're a subject…

cool story bro. I have no idea what you think I "sold" Washington, but anyone who has kubernetes never talked to me.

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#629
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are people attacking the author for a statement made about CoreOS, and for some hate towards Kubernetes. That's not really surprising, and maybe should be a lesson to the author. If you want to make a particular point, you shouldn't make inflammatory/controversial statements about other, only-tangentially-related things. It distracts from and dilutes your point. For my part, I know one of the CoreOS founders,…

Eh, idk. It makes for entertaining reading for a devops-sceptic.

Off-topic, but I've never seen anyone describe themselves as a "devops-sceptic" - could you elaborate more on what that looks like for you?

Re: Etcd, or, why modern software makes me sad

#630
> I am filled with rage just thinking about how we took a fundamental part of the Internet, simple enough that anyone can implement an HTTP server,

Ahahahahahah, yes, anyone can implement a HTTP server, just badly. HTTP/1.1 is quite complex, the spec alone spans over eight RFCs: if you can implement all of that I doubt the HTTP/2 serialization is much of a concern. :P

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