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Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

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Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#541

Post by mleonhard »

Idea:

Assign a short coding challenge and rank candidates on their solutions.

Then, one at a time, hire each candidate as a contractor for 20 hours of work. Let them fix bugs and do code reviews. See how effectively they communicate through code and in code reviews. Invite them participate in the weekly standup meeting.

Finally, have team members who worked with the person write confidential feedback with a hire/no-hire rating and justification. Hire the first candidate who gets all 'hire' ratings.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#542

Post by TimPC »

solidasparagus wrote: post #505
user5994461 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wager the opposite. That many people looking for a job are open to a (paid) trial week, when the alternative is countless grueling interviews that lead nowhere.

It depends on who we're talking about, but for high quality candidates in software heavy cities, this isn't very true. They are getting tons of offers and there's no reason to accept a trial offer. Plus you can't trial until you've quit your current job so for many people the whole premise makes no sense. It's not like you will have to interview with fewer places, it's just that each interview takes a lot longer.

Paid trials also have the issue that they might interfere with unemployment earnings while also being too short to earn unemployment afterwards. So they probably don't work for people with a job and don't work for people without a job.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#543

Post by sigstoat »

mikequinlan wrote: post #455
rsweeney21 wrote: post #448

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

Employers abuse contract-to-hire to get temporary employees with no intention of hiring.

why wouldn't they just hire contractors who don't expect to ever be hired?

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#544

Post by kevinskii »

When I last did a serious job search a few years ago, I thought I was pretty hot stuff. Nonetheless, I spent a few months reviewing algorithm text books and practicing code interview problems.

Then my first phone interview came, and I totally bombed it. And the next one. And the one after that. All in all, I think I bombed about seven code interviews (didn't even make it to an onsite) before I started to get some traction. One of the interviewers outright told me that I wasn't a very good coder.

After that I managed to get a couple of decent offers, but the process was quite humbling. If I interviewed again today I'd probably be in the same boat. Whiteboard interviewing is definitely an acquired skill.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#545

Post by cyberlurker »

fortylove wrote: post #320
marcinzm wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the quality they're actually testing for: ability to study and dedicate yourself to a task. Or in other words work ethic. The algorithms don't matter but the fact that you can spend months learning them is an important skill. Intelligence is less important for success than work ethic which is why work ethic is tested for so much. Specifically, work ethic and ability to learn in a related domain as, for…

I've always thought the SAT is basically gauging the same skill: can you study for a test and do well? The grades you get in college are mostly determined by how well you can study for tests. In the process, hopefully you learn the subject, but that always felt like a side goal. I think tech interviewing is somewhat similar: are you focused and dedicated enough to learn something arbitrary and produce code for it?

The LSAT too. It's just a giant test-game. By the end of studying for it, I was reminded of how I used to approach StarCraft. Once you figure it out and spend enough time on practice, scoring in the top percentile isn't very remarkable. Nothing you learn will help you in law school but you will have proven your ability to study. (Rare exception: I had a friend who didn't study and just took the test and scored in the 97th percentile. This is very uncommon and I am just taking him at his word that he didn't study.)

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#546

Post by annoyingnoob »

4dahalibut wrote: post #532

This is only true at FAANG, guys, stop working at FAANG its not doing the world very much good and there are tons of companies around looking to hire you that are. The future is starting now and FAANG engineers won't be a part of it.

In my experience, every company wants to be a FAANG-like company and so they've all picked up the same BS interviewing style.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#547

Post by solidasparagus »

_curious_ wrote: post #302
solidasparagus wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people are naive, they just don't have a better solution. Most established professionals are not interested in a 10 week trial period after which they might be back on the job market.

"Most established professionals are not interested in a 10 week trial period after which they might be back on the job market." Why not? If the position isn't a fit for either side after X time on-the-job, that's OK right?

Other people have mentioned the logistical/financial problems this incurs, but one other important consideration is that you are competing against other companies that don't do the trial-to-hire process and can thus offer more stability. And to be honest, given the state of the software engineer market (in tech-heavy cities), you already get to spend a couple of months trying out a company and then leave if you want. The difference is that the employer isn't similarly able to get rid of you after 3 months (it's too short a time to evaluate a new employee, the company has already invested heavily in onboarding costs, it's much slower to backfill a position than it is for a software engineer to find a new job, etc).

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#548

Post by bsk7 »

To me, the bigger question is, why do these interviews require every candidate to prove their programming/design skills from scratch? Say I have worked at a respected tech company for N years, my record there should provide a lot more signal than a day’s worth of interviewing would. I think we need some sort of standardized metrics for different dimensions of tech skills, and those metrics update over years of experience. Then companies don’t need to assess tech skills - they just need to look at your record, knowing that it is objective. Certifications, open-source contributions are some examples. The problem is the work you do closed-door in a company cannot be objectified or standardized easily. If we can solve that, that would go a long way here. Interviews can then focus on soft and behavioral skills solely. Not to say that those interviews are any more useful or signal-deducing as they happen today.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#550

Post by Arcsech »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #468
chc wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you offering insurance to every C2H prospect? Otherwise, this seems like it basically works for healthy people without families.

We provide business insurance coverage for anyone on contract through Facet. For health insurance, we recommend people just use COBRA to keep the insurance they had at their last company. You have to pay for it out of your own pocket, but you just build that in to your hourly rate that you charge.

If I was told that from a company I was looking at, I would drop them like a hot rock. Health insurance is not optional in the US, and COBRA is a giant ass-pain. This really sounds like very little benefit to me for a whole lot of benefit for the hiring company.
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