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Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

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Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#531

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

I am focusing on the algorithmic part, which is the only thing I can influence in my company's interviews. I wish we would evaluate candidates with some pair programming, but that's never going to happen.

> incredibly high stakes algorithm riddles

Yeah there you go. This is your problem (Google/Facebook I assume?). It's more than questionable to expect candidates to solves complex algorithmic problems on a whiteboard in 45 minutes. You should ask moderate algorithmic questions that offer many solution approaches and accept solutions that are "good enough". It is not about having a candidate gaining some magic insight that some MIT student had 30 years ago during his master thesis (and reproducing it in 20 minutes lol). It's about giving a reasonably complex problem, that is not too easy but also not too difficult and allows you to focus evaluation on:

* Does the candidate write proper code that isn't far from compiling? (If they can't, they don't have the experience. It's like not being able to write without a spell/grammar checker. Small mistakes are fine. Big mistakes indicate lack of understanding.)

* Does the candidate have a structured approach to problem solving (all the time I see people starting to write code immediately and getting completely lost in what the problem even was. This is a red flag to me and baffles me each time again.).

* Does the candidate debug his code and walk me through. Does he find obvious bugs while doing so and can he convince me that his code works? (If not, and that happens often, its another red flag)

* Can he rank the speed of his solution with other theoretical solutions? Let's say they found an N^2 algorithm. I usually ask if there is anything faster (even if there isn't). This shows if they have some decent fundamentals in CS and are able to think about the boundaries of an optimal solution and how far they are from it. This is something, people without a CS major usually can never do and unfortunately also not too many with a CS major. It's kinda relevant though, if you optimize for performance and have no clue what the theoretical limitations are, then you are grasping for straws.

There is one big secret for getting A LOT out of easy questions:

I start to modify the problem statement and see if they understand how this changes their solution and their algorithm. People who don't have a good grasp of CS will fail miserably at this task, because this isn't something you can memorize.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Couldn't tell an average from a median Without meaning to attack you personally (especially in the context of the rest of your comment), a comment like this annoys me a bit. I presume by "average" you mean arithmetic mean, but the median is also an average, and depending on the context the median might be a far more useful statistic than the mean. Confusing the mean and the median is one thing, and perhaps you actu…

I know nothing about GP, but note that it is possible that English is not his first language, and the subtleties of the story and vocabulary might be lost in translation. In my native language (French), as you describe it, there is no word for "average" (the technical and the common terms "moyenne" are exactly the same). Until your comment, in English, I assumed you could use "average" and "mean" interchangeably.

French and English are strictly equivalent.

moyenne is mean or average. The formal name is "arithmetic mean" and "moyenne arithmétique".

median is médiane. people frequently use any word but median in both languages when they want to talk about the median.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_mean

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moyenne_arithm%C3%A9tique

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#534

I've been interviewing SRE candidates for a long time. In theory, being able to make technical decisions under high pressure is integral to the job. But interview stress is very different than work stress. It doesn't seem to translate well. Some people do fine during the interview and then crack under real pressure, and some people it's the exact opposite. I've changed my interviewing to involve very little coding. I…

I've observed that candidates hamstring themselves in ways that seem to me bizarre. Indeed the interview is an unfamiliar situation, so why would you do something like use a language other than one you know well, or code in an environment you don't feel comfortable in? I have had those happen in interviews I conduct so many times! This is for the "front-door" interview, not the on site. Somewhere around halfway throu…

Yeah I got that too. I would tell them, "do this in your favorite language" and sometimes when they get stuck they say, "I don't really know Python that well". Then why did you choose it?!

Although my favorite was, "I don't know how to write a loop, my IDE usually does it for me".

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#535
post #377

People bomb, including good people. That is sadly part of the system. Once I had this candidate. Damn, I know my questions are deceptively simple on purpose, but he literally couldn't do anything. Not even a trivial brute force. Not even any related simple knowledge questions. Couldn't tell an average from a median. The only good thing I could write in the feedback was "seems to know some basic syntax". It was quite…

Oh no, confusing median vs mean is a very specific interview question I've bombed in the past so hard that the interview almost immediately stopped!

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#536

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

How does C2H get rid of interviews if there are more candidates than roles to fill? Surely you need to filter through anyway. At that point, C2H has the downsides of a permanent position (having to pass an interview) without the benefits of stability, health insurance, holidays, ...

Besides, from the hiring company perspective, only unemployed people or people who really hate their jobs would end up sending their CVs. The competent people who are currently happy where they are would never try C2H. So they are missing a lot of potential good candidates that way.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#537
I see lots of posts critical of companies and interviewers. The problem is there are too many qualified candidates for some jobs and companies must weed out candidates somehow. If they have 100 qualified candidates for 1 position, how would you rather they pick? The real problem is something else. It's a lack of jobs, inequality, the cost of living, and I don't know what else. Many people are getting squeezed.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#538

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

A number of the systemic issues with contract to hire have already been raised, but here’s another: taking a C2H job can immediately render you ineligible for unemployment, as you are now self employed. If the contract doesn’t work out, you could potentially have lost eligibility for not just unemployment benefits, but related food and health benefits. That’s particularly relevant now with the souped up pandemic benefits.

I don’t disagree that it would be nice if every candidate could take the time to try a company out before they join them, but the real world really can make that impractical. Some of the suggestions this thread makes around “buying” ones way out of these problems (such as knowing to have paid for COBRA ahead of time and being able to afford it) represent knowledge and opportunity that is all together distinct from ones ability to do the job.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would I quit my job or take days(?) off just so I can apply for a contract position? This would be strictly for unemployed software engineers, or truly desperate ones that needed to get out of their current job ASAP.

Yeah, that's the part that sounds crazy. The benefit is you get to try them out first and you can negotiate a higher salary after you become indispensible. If it doesn't work out, you move on to the next C2H.

Yeah I dunno about that... a long (or even short) list of 6-12 month C2H gigs that didn't turn into full-time jobs screams trouble -- either you're a jerk, or you're bad at the tech.

If you're consistently swinging from contract to contract you're a freelancer, and you should be arranging contracts accordingly, not letting headhunters/recruiters control the playbook by dangling full-time employment.

I agree with the grandparent: C2H usually means you're unemployed, or you want out of your current gig badly, or you're aiming slightly higher than you're qualified; if you're qualified for the role and already have a job then they should be willing to take you on from the get-go.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#540
post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

You're missing the quality they're actually testing for: ability to study and dedicate yourself to a task. Or in other words work ethic. The algorithms don't matter but the fact that you can spend months learning them is an important skill. Intelligence is less important for success than work ethic which is why work ethic is tested for so much. Specifically, work ethic and ability to learn in a related domain as, for…

Ethics? You are asking people to study and spend hours working on LeetCode problems for something close to completely useless. On the ethical scale, people that accept to spend hours of their limited life doing so are probably not the ones I would think of as "looking to work on something great"
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