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Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

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Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#521

Post by Sivart13 »

dcow wrote: post #449
koheripbal wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One trend I've noticed that is markedly different from when I started programming in 1998, is how dependent we've become to program via Google/StackExchange searches. I'm not sure I know how to write anything from scratch anymore, because I just search/read/alter/test. The breadth of what I work on is 100x wider than it used to be, and so I've become absolutely dependent on quickly reading docs, copying code found on…

>Maybe we should interview with small take-home tasks to be submitted with some write-ups to test how people research, reason, and write-up problems, rather than writing code on the spot on a whiteboard. ...but maybe that's just me. I'm a huge fan of giving people tasks that somewhat resemble a real world problem they'd likely encounter or at least aligns categorically with their proclaimed resume feats and more impo…

"Take home" questions are heavily biased in favor of the employer because they're not required to put anything on the line.

An asynchronous test is definitely more flexible for all parties, but it also means the employer can more forward with far more interviews than they would be able to do in person. Leading to more candidates wasting their time doing nonsense work when they have proportionally less of a chance of getting the job.

Possibly I'm just bitter because of the time I spent 4 hours on a take-home only for the company to ghost me (name-and-shame: Instacart). But at least for in-person interviews they have to buy you lunch before the ghosting can occur.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#522

Post by itsdrewmiller »

gundmc wrote: post #63
dpc_pw wrote: post #36

That experiment assumes that SWE job is exclusively about solving technical problems, so we can just "lock the candidate in a private room and let them solve it". In reality human to human interactions, sometimes stressful, are part of the job. Customer & PM requirements, technical debates, giving feedback, explaining your technical solutions, etc. are common. Maybe part of the problem is the education that does not…

Agreed. When I'm conducting interviews, the actual code produced is less than half of what I'm looking for. I want to assess if the candidate can communicate their thoughts effectively, if they can identify alternative approaches and justify their decisions, how they receive and incorporate feedback. Locking someone in a room to write on a whiteboard is not a coding interview.

Hassling someone once a minute while they try to write algorithmic code is not a great way to assess anything useful either.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#523

Post by taurath »

ritchiea wrote: post #477
taurath wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a class problem with C2H in almost all companies. Contractors are always seen as less than by management and especially hiring committees. I work at a company that I've been hired thru C2H. Everyone on the team, my manager knew I was one of the strongest programmers on the team. But when it came for my conversion interview I bombed. It was run by 3 of the most senior principles with the lowest acceptance rate…

I would think the idea of C2H is instead of having an intense interview you have a performance review and talk about how you work together. If you still have to pass a high pressure interview attempt to filter you out after working with a team for 3 months there’s no advantage to C2H.

If you /didn't/ have to pass through the same meatgrinder that every other employee did there's a reasonable argument that it could be seen as an opportunity for favoritism. But that sort of ignores that if an interviewer wants an interview to go well (because they feel more empathy for one interviewee over another for instance...) it tends to go better. We like to pretend that "a question is a question" but we're just testing the person's state of mind. I've had interview questions I've answered >10 times and drawn complete blanks because I'm trapped in a tiny room with a person with an inflated title and ego, and their shadow who is intently staring at every movement I make.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#524

Post by hysan »

goostavos wrote: post #74
decafninja wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel in the tech industry, networking and knowing people only gets you so far - typically just to the whiteboard interview. Then you have to solve the leetcode problems just like everyone else. Especially so in larger companies. FWIW, all of my friends who somehow managed to get into FAANG or other top tech companies swear that were they to go through the interview again, odds are they would fail. This despite all…

I'm actually a little scared to leave my current FAANG gig for that exact reason tbh. I'm fairly certain I wouldn't make it back in the door without more leetcode grinding + repeated loops than I'm willing to do at this point in my career. Plus, stack on top of that, I've seen how the sausage is made. I've done 90+ interviews on the other side. At the end of the day, it comes down to how lucky you got in the loop. I'…

I would think that this is partially by design to get employees to second guess ever wanting to leave and explore other options.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#525

Post by Aunche »

BurningFrog wrote: post #490
Aunche wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring primarily based on references almost guarantees bias. White engineers will tend to know more white engineers. Asian engineers will tend to know more Asian engineers.

This assumes white engineers only knows other white engineers etc. This is very much not how the Silicon Valley I've been in for decades works!

Of course, you could have diverse acquaintances and friends, but most people are more inclined to be friends with people who share the same race and gender because they often share the same experiences. This puts a black female at a great disadvantage if her friends are mostly other black females because so few of them work in tech.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#526

Post by nilkn »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #448

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

I would consider C2H if you were willing to offer three months full severance pay and health insurance in the event that you decide to lay me off at the end of the contract.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#527

Post by mateo411 »

mikequinlan wrote: post #455
rsweeney21 wrote: post #448

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

Employers abuse contract-to-hire to get temporary employees with no intention of hiring.

That seems like a bad deal for the company. Even though the person is a contractor, you just trained and ramped them up for the last few months. Now, when they are most productive, you are going to let them go, and replace them with somebody who you will have to train and ramp up all over again.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#528

Post by redisman »

zelly wrote: post #88

I fear there's a movement to get rid of leetcode interviews and I'm against it. What's the alternative? We go back to "you have to look the part", nepotism, credentialism, and other such BS in other industries. A data structures and algorithms test is fair and objective. You can objectively get all the challenges correct and then there's little reason to not hire you. Compare that to interviewing for, say, an investm…

A juggling test would also be fair and objective. Just hit LeetJuggle for a few months before the interview and you’ll be golden

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#529

Post by solidsnack9000 »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #448

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

There is something to this idea, but the discount on the first few months of work as an opportunity to "prove your value" doesn't make any sense. If your value isn't sufficient, they shouldn't renew or take the next step. The C2H process already excludes the value of many valuable benefits.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#530

Post by SkyPuncher »

x87678r wrote: post #478
rsweeney21 wrote: post #448

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

> because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out No I dont want to quit my current role until I have a secure job. I'm not going to c2h to be told six weeks later I'm on the street.

Yea, this guy loves C2H because it makes him a lot of money. It "solves" a problem for employers - which is all he really cares about. Good employers don't use C2H because they recognize talented people have plenty of competing offers for direct-hire.

If I'm quitting my current job to come work for you, I'm not taking on the financial risk for a job that YOU decided needs to be filled, set all of the evaluation and success criteria, and know what your company's culture is actually like.

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