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Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

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Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#471

Post by timClicks »

bumby wrote: post #405
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #115

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

I've heard HR optimizes processes that limit Type I errors (false positive) at the expense of Type II errors (false negative). I've often wondered if this is because, from the HR perspective, false positives are much more costly. I.e., Those who would be helped by limiting the false negatives are project managers who are too downstream in the process for HR to care.

Yes this. Hiring the wrong person can be ridiculously expensive, especially if they linger on in a role for years corroding the culture.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#472

Post by rsweeney21 »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #464
rsweeney21 wrote: post #448

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

Why on earth would I quit my job or take days(?) off just so I can apply for a contract position? This would be strictly for unemployed software engineers, or truly desperate ones that needed to get out of their current job ASAP.

Yeah, that's the part that sounds crazy. The benefit is you get to try them out first and you can negotiate a higher salary after you become indispensible. If it doesn't work out, you move on to the next C2H.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#473

Post by dragonwriter »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #466
mikequinlan wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers abuse contract-to-hire to get temporary employees with no intention of hiring.

Some companies might do this, but this hasn't been our experience. It's the opposite. Companies VASTLY prefer full-time employees for software developers because it is so costly when they leave. They want devs to stay forever. They almost always convert contractors to FTE within the first couple fo months. They want to get the golden hand-cuffs in place ASAP.

> Companies VASTLY prefer full-time employees for software developers because it is so costly when they leave.

Companies whose core business is software development probably do, some other companies have almost entirely outsourced development, even where they have very large ongoing custom development needs.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#474

Post by LordFast »

taurath wrote: post #469
rsweeney21 wrote: post #448

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

There's a class problem with C2H in almost all companies. Contractors are always seen as less than by management and especially hiring committees. I work at a company that I've been hired thru C2H. Everyone on the team, my manager knew I was one of the strongest programmers on the team. But when it came for my conversion interview I bombed. It was run by 3 of the most senior principles with the lowest acceptance rate…

Interesting. I haven't thought too much about C2H in particular, but it seems like it might just kick the can down the road instead of solving the root problem; The root problem is human nature.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#475

Post by merlinsbrain »

tornato7 wrote: post #442
SwiftyBug wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told to reject a candidate because "he didn't seem that excited to work here"

I have rejected candidates for that. When you're hiring for a startup it's absolutely vital to have people who believe in the mission and the product and not just doing the bare minimum for a paycheck. If that's all you want, go work for the government, or Facebook.

Hard disagree. I’d encourage you to reflect on your startup’s culture and figure out what distinguishes a good engineer from a good engineer who can convince you about their passion.

Usually, it’s when startups want employees to work longer hours than the value the they’re calculating on receiving from the equity+pay that’s being offered.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#476

Post by el_benhameen »

northern-lights wrote: post #179
robgibbons wrote: post #82

Bad interviews make for bad hires. Bad hires can cost a company more than not hiring at all. Whenever I've conducted interviews in the past, I've gone out of my way to help the candidates relax. Need to use Google? Go ahead, I do literally all the time. Need some advice, something explained? Just ask, that's why we have peers. Nobody writes code on a whiteboard, with no docs, with three people watching, silently taki…

>Bad interviews make for bad hires. Bad hires can cost a company more than not hiring at all. But is that really true? There are plenty of companies who take a Fire Better approach (Amazon, Netflix to name a few) who seem to be doing just fine.

Worth noting that, at least as far as I've heard, the pressure on employees in at least some roles at the two companies you mentioned is incredibly stressful. I would rather have an interview without undue stress than a stressful one, but I'd rather have a stressful interview than continuous stress on the job. (I am differentiating here between "working on difficult problems" stress and "always wondering if you're going to get canned" stress.)

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#477

Post by ritchiea »

taurath wrote: post #469
rsweeney21 wrote: post #448

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

There's a class problem with C2H in almost all companies. Contractors are always seen as less than by management and especially hiring committees. I work at a company that I've been hired thru C2H. Everyone on the team, my manager knew I was one of the strongest programmers on the team. But when it came for my conversion interview I bombed. It was run by 3 of the most senior principles with the lowest acceptance rate…

I would think the idea of C2H is instead of having an intense interview you have a performance review and talk about how you work together. If you still have to pass a high pressure interview attempt to filter you out after working with a team for 3 months there’s no advantage to C2H.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#478

Post by x87678r »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #448

I'm a ex-FANG dev that started a recruiting company, so I am VERY familiar with the arbitrary tech interview process. I'm a huge proponent of contract-to-hire. Even started a company* to make it easier for companies to offer contract-to-hire. Now before you dismiss the idea because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out. Everyone knows that actually working with someone on the job is the only way to get an accurate…

> because you are "too good" to do C2H hear me out

No I dont want to quit my current role until I have a secure job. I'm not going to c2h to be told six weeks later I'm on the street.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#479

Post by n00j »

drewmate wrote: post #255
acomjean wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Mom makes this point about nerves. In the last century when she was interviewing she got lost and showed up 45 minutes late to the interview. Thinking she had no shot, she was relaxed and interviewed well and was hired. When she left that job 10 years later, her boss noted, that "one of the things she learned from her was that it was ok to hire someone who shows up 45 minutes late to their interview.."

This is an interesting anecdote. All too often, interviewers seem to be looking for any reason they can not to hire someone rather than looking for evidence that the person would be a good co-worker. I am guilty of this to some extent, but a lot of it comes down to the interview culture/framework of the company in question.

I think I'm the complete opposite. I want to hire you if you come in to interview. Interviewing for an open position takes up so much time from so many people during the process, why would I want to spend more time than necessary. When I'm in the interview I try to do everything I can to make sure you can succeed and looking for reasons to hire you, otherwise I have to spend more time interviewing.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#480

Post by sizzle »

roldie wrote: post #258
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #115

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

The same is true for design/ux jobs interviews. Well, at least for me. I got laid off a couple of months ago, and have been interviewing pretty steadily since then. I have yet to receive an offer. I already know where my strengths and weaknesses are. I'm fine with 1 on 1s and all that, but when it comes to the technical part of the interview process like a take-home design project or a live design challenge, I usuall…

Hang in there dude, I think the coronavirus and remote working really messed with the traditional hiring process.

The fact that you are getting steady interviews speaks for itself that you have the design chops and experience. I think people don't know how to interview design candidates well as is, removing the physical cues you get from an in-person interview makes it even harder to assess a designer. Also, it could just be companies are flying by the seat of their pants and a lot have reduced workforce with this second wave of infections.

High probability it's not you, it's them and their broken process during covid-19. Keep your design skills sharp and keep building your portfolio and use this time to work on concepts that you are passionate about that haven't come up in a 9-5, that will help you until the right opportunity comes along. You got this!

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