Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#421

Post by x0x0 » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #332

schreiaj wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on the other side - I flew out to FB during a vacation earlier this year. I got there, could explain the solution but something was off and I kept losing the thread when I went to convert it to actual code. The interviewers didn’t know I’d gotten a call from my cat sitter that morning and one of my cats had to go in for an emergency check up. (He ended up being fine but didn’t know that at the time). Later that…

A pro tip for anyone reading this who ever ends up in a similar situation: just postpone the interview. I promise you that everyone will understand. Everyone gets that these things are a little goofy[1] and wants to set people up for success and not doom them to failure. 1. Yes, there is a larger and more complicated discussion to be had about making the whole system better. But that isn't gonna happen in the short t…

It's worth emphasizing, as a hiring manager: By the time you're in an interview, I want to hire you. I'm sitting there hoping to write "Strong hire" on my feedback form.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#422

Post by speeder » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

benburleson wrote: post #280

chpmrc wrote: post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

Amazon is the king of assessing how much you want to work for the company. The recruiter will place a huge emphasis on nailing their Leadership Principles, and coming up with stories from your work to demonstrate you embody the Principles. They will even tell you that specific interviewers have specific LPs they will probe on, but in the actual interview they ask very veiled questions and you're supposed to know that…

When I interviewed at Amazon last time, I paused all my other work, even my full time job, to focus on it.

Wasn't well treated at interview day (people forgot me in a room for several hours for example, also had interviewers arrive late, among other issues), and probably didn't pass because there was some questions about LP that I couldn't answer, basically all interviewers without exception asked the same question on how I handled an issue in a large team, except I never worked in a large team, whenever I told them that, they would ask the same question, but worded differently.

It became obvious to me that I should have lied, should have written before going to the interview some fictional stories that I could use to answer the LP questions.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#423

Post by rsynnott » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

starpilot wrote: post #103

Current SWE interviews seem extraordinarily effective. They've produced corporations that dominate our lives, with systems that have unimaginable capabilities. Their profits currently dwarf other companies such that the S&P500 is basically a tech company index. More companies will adopt hiring practices like these as the applicants become more competitive. SpaceX has grueling all-day multiround tech-like interviews l…

There's a phenomenon where an entity which is successful for reason X is unaware that it's hurting itself for reason Y, and may even attribute its success to reason Y. Which is all very well until X shrinks or Y grows.

The point is that you can't assume that just because something is doing well, everything it's doing is perfect. In fact, success is likely to hide all sorts of bad practices, because the bad practices just don't hurt enough to offset the success coming from another source.

I kind of suspect that this is why declining tech companies often crash and burn so dramatically; they tend to have a lot of myths that they believe about themselves, and when the one thing keeping them going declines, they can't address all the things that are pulling them down, because they don't really believe in them in the first place.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#424

Post by aylmao » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:54 PM UTC

This is bad news for URMs. I am hispanic and was an international student— looking back there's many "extra" things that added to my feeling anxious before interviews. The imposter syndrome was real and I worried about wether I'd fit in, for example. I luckily don't have much of a language barrier but there were definitely a cultural barriers.

In the back of my mind I was always thinking I had to do more than "enough" and be exceptional. You read studies about how two people with the same qualifications might not get the same results after an interview due to unconscious biases by the interviewer. I felt like I had to be good enough that'd I'd overcome any kind of bias the interviewer might have. It's stressful.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#425

Post by whack » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

benburleson wrote: post #280

chpmrc wrote: post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

Amazon is the king of assessing how much you want to work for the company. The recruiter will place a huge emphasis on nailing their Leadership Principles, and coming up with stories from your work to demonstrate you embody the Principles. They will even tell you that specific interviewers have specific LPs they will probe on, but in the actual interview they ask very veiled questions and you're supposed to know that…

I personally know many people who conduct interviews, provide interview feedback, and make hiring decisions at Amazon. None of them operate the way you're describing. There's no "gotcha" as far as making you guess what LP they are trying to get at, or conforming to the Amazon borg. They are simply evaluating you based on your work accomplishments and aptitude, as demonstrated by the projects and experiences you choose to talk about.

Regarding the LP interview format itself, it's just a vanilla Behavioral Interview. See: https://www.thebalancecareers.com/behavioral-job-interviews-.... It's becoming increasingly uncommon in tech (because people are preferring whiteboard coding instead), but it's one of the most common interview formats you'll see in most white collar professions.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#426

Post by fragmede » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:56 PM UTC

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #115

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

Where engineering fields have a disproporationate number of individuals with ASD (née aspergers), and where anxiety plays a large part of the syndromes, it's no surprise that many, many good engineers are terrible at interviewing.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#427

Post by ironman1478 » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #161

ironman1478 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this obsession with leetcode style questions specifically. I just got a job at a FAANG on an algorithm heavy team and all they asked me was linked lists, some basic graph questions, and some basic (and I mean really basic, high school non-calc level) vector math. I think just having a rock solid understanding of the basics will help much more than trying to grind questions and memorize patterns.

> I think just having a rock solid understanding of the basics will help much more than trying to grind questions and memorize patterns. It isn’t about memorizing patterns, but about hopefully spotting the exact question. A friend is currently interviewing for a FAANG and the recruiter flat out told him that his best chance of passing was to do a pile of previously seen questions for that FAANG and hopefully he gets…

That's so disheartening. When I'm looking to work with somebody, I look for somebody that can solve problems (and admit when they don't immediately know the solution, which is extremely important imo) not just regurgitate a solution to a problem they know already. If this is actually what the recruiter said, this is a huge indictment of that company's hiring practices.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#428

Post by thephyber » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

schreiaj wrote: post #297

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #115

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

I was on the other side - I flew out to FB during a vacation earlier this year. I got there, could explain the solution but something was off and I kept losing the thread when I went to convert it to actual code. The interviewers didn’t know I’d gotten a call from my cat sitter that morning and one of my cats had to go in for an emergency check up. (He ended up being fine but didn’t know that at the time). Later that…

I think knowledge workers will have to learn more about human psychology in the future.

I know I go thru waves of high productivity and low productivity. That productivity seems to be closely related to the ability to concentrate in my environment, sufficient sleep, how closely I've followed y daily rituals, fewer stressors in the past few weeks, etc.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#429

Post by cortesoft » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

starpilot wrote: post #57

cortesoft wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was true for me, too. My previous startup I worked at had gone under, and I was thinking about starting my own. An old coworker of mine invited me to lunch. We had a couple of margaritas, and he asked if I wanted to see his office. I went to check it out, and suddenly he asks if I can talk to some of his coworkers. So I basically interviewed while drunk and not fully realizing I was being interviewed. They offer…

This is described in http://carlos.bueno.org/2014/06/mirrortocracy.html Some companies stress interpersonal fit over technical ability, as you are initiated in "the Culture."

I actually agree.

I enjoy telling this story, because I think it is funny and always gets a laugh.

I do think, though, that it is indicative of a problematic culture in tech that perpetuates hiring people who are like you. I got the job when I was a young, single guy who could fit into that sort of 'brogrammer' culture. I am lucky in that the company has changed over the years (bought by a large corporation, and we have mostly moved on from this sort of culture), because I have two young kids now and can't live that sort of life anymore.

What is worse, is there are a lot of great software developers who NEVER could fit in to that sort of culture, and they would have had a lot harder time being hired.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#430

Post by rainyMammoth » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #337

chpmrc wrote: post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us The vast majority of people who work at FAANG type companies do not do any of this.

I think you are very wrong. Every single software person I know at a FAANG spend multiple weeks studying leetcode style questions.

Think about it: you are passing an exam. Why wouldn't you study the questions that you know are going to get asked?

It got even worse lately since every candidate does this, it raises the bar for the expected solution.