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Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

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Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#401

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

It's not just nerves either. All interviews, but especially FAANG ones, are random. The interview might be racist, sexist, etc. They might have gotten divorced that day. The question they ask you is something you haven't heard of but they spent their PhD on. You can even do everything correctly, but the interviewer doesn't like the way you did it.

The leetcode stuff is just masochism. You will spend X months beating DS&A into your brain until someone can pullout a random question and you immediately know what questions to ask, what steps to take, and how to write it out on a whiteboard.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there a centralized place with information like this but for other companies as well?

Not that I'm aware of, because it's a difficult problem. First off, reports need to be anonymous to prevent employer retaliation, but if they're anonymous, then how can the information be verified? Even if it's verified, without extensive input, it's impossible to say if the details of someone's experience is the norm for the company or just about that one part of the org. Then finally, happy people generally don't g…

> it would be worth it to talk to a tech recruiter

IMO this is very good advice. Having been on both sides of the equation, I think a good tech recruiter (emphasis on good) brings a huge value to the process. As a hiring manager, I had one guy I knew I could rely on to bring me really qualified candidates every time. His own filter was excellent, and he only brought me people that were a good fit. I almost didn't need to interview them. Other recruiters were terrible, one even sent me a candidate who had faked their first phone screen so they weren't even remotely qualified for the job.

That is the guy you want to know. He has earned his reputation. And it cuts both ways, too -- his success isn't just when the company is happy with him, but when candidates are too -- all the best ones are his clients, after all.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#404
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programming in general is language and framework agnostic. Someone who can write an extensible and maintainable C++ application can most likely do the same in C#, Java, Rust etc. There's decades of best practices and knowledge around what makes good software and almost none of it is specific to a language. Most devs use a handful of algorithms in their entire career. And any algorithm they do use was probably adapted…

Would you agree that interviewing in psudocode is a good idea then? But what's the content they should be interviewed on? You say no to quicksort. How about date parsing? That shows you have to handle messy cases. What do you want them to write if not algorithms? Maybe we have a different expectation of what "algorithm" means? The term is pretty generic, but I feel captures more of the cross language stuff. Compare a…

>But what's the content they should be interviewed on? You say no to quicksort. How about date parsing? That shows you have to handle messy cases.

But why? The vast majority of programmers don't ever need to write code to parse a date. It's just another test completely irrelevant to the job.

>Compare a "How does javascript handle equality?" question which falls under "trivia", vs "Implement a hash table", which isn't too hard to do for a naive solution, and demonstrates that you know how the basic data structures you work with day to day work.

Both are pretty bad interview questions. Is this a Javascript position? If they don't know how it handles equality do you really think that is the end of the the world for the interviewee, does that make them a bad programmer? It's something you could explain to them during the interview in under 5 minutes (and you should, it eases the pressure on the interviewee). So really what's the worth of asking it?

Likewise, "implement a hash table". Pointless. Ask them "Do you know how a hash table works under the hood?", chances are they might not know exactly how to implement one but they do understand roughly how it works. If they don't know then describe a simple implementation and quiz them on why it's built this way, do they understand the "why" even if they don't understand the "how". Most competent programmers can implement a hash table given an explanation of how it works which is why I don't think it's a good question to ask someone during an interview. It's just a memory test, not a test of how good they are as a programmer, how good they'd fit into a team, how good they would be at designing a large system, how good they'd be at weighing up the pros and cons of different solutions.

This is why interviews should be discussions, not tests.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#405

I conducted a couple hundred interviews for my first FAANG employer, and I was constantly amazed at the percentage of candidates with years of Microsoft or Facebook experience on the resumes who apparently did not know how to program. I always thought, 'huh, guess I know why they quit after 3 years, amazing that they all lasted this long." Then I interviewed for another company and utterly bombed. It became suddenly…

I've heard HR optimizes processes that limit Type I errors (false positive) at the expense of Type II errors (false negative).

I've often wondered if this is because, from the HR perspective, false positives are much more costly. I.e., Those who would be helped by limiting the false negatives are project managers who are too downstream in the process for HR to care.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#406
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If not algorithms then what would you use to test a generic programmer? You would have to setup a custom panel based on each candidate. A person who has only worked for PHP would need a different panel from someone who has worked on C++ all his life. Algorithms is language and framework agnostic. It doesn't matter if you work in embedded or data science. It doesn't matter if you code in C or Python. The same question…

why does it have to happen in a high pressure situation with only 45 minutes though? there's no analog to that in professional coding.

HBO's Silicon Valley is dramatized, but I can't be the only one who's coded from the the convention hall floor/hotel, or had to setup servers "live". Every time a site gets unexpectedly popular (/. effect; HN hug of death) and dies, and comes back, there's someone at the other end who's probably close to tears trying to get their site back up ASAP.

That doesn't indict the fact that's the exception and that software programming almost never looks like that.

The real problem is that take home problems are trivially gameable - it's obvious to someone unscrupulous who's not a well-seasoned coder, that it would be well worth paying someone else to do their take-home-interview-homework. (Sure, that would come out eventually, but that's only one of the problems I have with take-home assignments.)

Some places have "open book" interviews, where it's like "here's a laptop, do this thing, and google/stack overflow/devdocs" your way to victory, which is at least better than the older "how much trivia do you remember about this API"-style questions. But I have no idea how to go further and make that unbound by time when an employee is on the other end of the table listening to the interviewee's thought process, if only because it makes it very hard on the interviewer to plan their own time. (Especially considering maker vs manager time.)

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#407
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us The vast majority of people who work at FAANG type companies do not do any of this.

You'd be surprised. In an industry rife with impostor syndrome, and the perception that it takes intelligence to pass a FANG algorithm interview (it does, but hard work and discipline beats raw intelligence), there's a strong disincentive to admit that "hey, I studied really hard, for months in order to get this job" when there's an expectation that your coworkers and peers will look down on you after this comes to l…

You would think that if the interview process was filtering on anxiety levels it would lead these companies to be full of people with high confidence which would mean imposter syndrome would not be a widespread issue.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#408
post #377

People bomb, including good people. That is sadly part of the system. Once I had this candidate. Damn, I know my questions are deceptively simple on purpose, but he literally couldn't do anything. Not even a trivial brute force. Not even any related simple knowledge questions. Couldn't tell an average from a median. The only good thing I could write in the feedback was "seems to know some basic syntax". It was quite…

> Couldn't tell an average from a median

Without meaning to attack you personally (especially in the context of the rest of your comment), a comment like this annoys me a bit.

I presume by "average" you mean arithmetic mean, but the median is also an average, and depending on the context the median might be a far more useful statistic than the mean. Confusing the mean and the median is one thing, and perhaps you actually used this terminology in the interview; "confusing" "the average" and the median isn't really worthy of comment, and sounds more like a breakdown in communication between interviewer and candidate rather than a lack of technical knowledge. It just seems vaguely hypocritical to me to be expecting a certain level of ability from the candidate and then using imprecise/informal terminology.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#409
post #138

It seems pretty obvious to me that this kind of interviews are simply there to assess how much you want to work for a certain company. As in: would you be willing to study for months, go through mock interviews, read books, test your skills etc. to have a shot at working for us? Even though the majority of that stuff will likely have zero impact on your day to day work? That's all there is, really. I've had no proble…

I've been told to reject a candidate because "he didn't seem that excited to work here"

As someone who loathes any kind of drama and deliberately stuffs down my own emotional reactions as a result, this would screw me every time. My natural response is to avoid getting outwardly excited.

Re: Tech sector job interviews assess anxiety, not software skills: study

#410
post #290
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She will just say that the process is designed to minimize false positives and the expense of more false negatives. A bad hire is more expensive than a no hire. That's what they keep saying. However, it remains to be proven that regurgitating answers on a whiteboard in 45 minutes implies that the candidate is not a false negative, or even a true positive to begin with.

Someone who able to immediately understand and write out the solution to 80% of hard DS&A questions is at least able to write code. The question is if this is honestly better than generating your own FizzBuzz. I don't think so. I have heard rumors that Google has studied employee performance predictions based on interview score and found no correlation. I would bet this is an open secret and no one knows what to repl…

> no one knows what to replace it with that isn't enormously expensive

That's the crazy thing about this. FAANG has near-infinite resources, relatively speaking. Google could be A/B testing their interviewing process, experimenting new approaches, experimenting (as the OP study did) with eye-trackers and other tech to try to gain insights on candidate behavior. They have the "engineering for the sake of engineering" and "innovation for the sake of innovation" culture that allows for moonshots and boondoggles. I don't think they're exactly known for following "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", given how many times they kill off products only to recreate them later on, especially their chat apps.

Yet they stick to the traditional whiteboarding method because-- why?

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