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Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

sustainability-times.com

121–130 of 256 posts

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#121
post #78

Omitted in the article: the reason why a gas plant (and not coal as written in the article) is picking up the load is because the french nuclear industry is years behind schedule for putting online the Flamanville EPR. The original political deal was putting online the EPR then closing Fessenheim, partly to avoid going over the legal limit for nuclear power capacity set by "PPE" law in France. According to wikipedia…

All the more reason not to close a perfectly fine nuclear plant.

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#122
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's always a lot of talk about renewables It's odd to pretend that renewables are all talk when at the moment I'm writing this France's power grid is 28% renewable[1]. And France still has lots of opportunities to expand, both solar and wind. You'd think with >4000km of coast line there'd be lots of space for offshore wind. [1] https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/FR and 60% nuclear, but the point still stands

The bulk of French renewable is hydro, which is not going to grow, and has been there for ages. It's actually a very good complement to nuclear plants. It's disingenuous to point at 28% renewables as if it's a sudden victory of good wind and solar against bad old nuclear. Particularly when we know that gas power plants will be built to partially replace Fessenheim.

Current renewable generation is two thirds hydro, one third solar and wind. France's installed capacity for solar plus wind already exceeds hydro. With plenty of room for more.

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#123
post #107
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a very focused elite building system in which the big universities creating the future members of the elite are heavily financed and influenced by pro-nuclear organizations. That goes especially for politicans, but includes engineers. The pro-nuclear propaganda repeated by the people that go through this is frightening, many of them are completely brainwashed. In no way can the ASN be really independent, as…

This is one convenient lie. I will just criticize the "pro-nuclear propaganda" bit and ignore the other anti-elite stuff about the engineering schools, after all "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." What is called in France ENR (new renewable energies, basically solar and wind power) are backed by gaz companies, and now even French oil companies (Total) have a hand in the ga…

Hey, that's unnecessary. I admit that my comment was written in haste and is not properly backed up and can't be properly backed up, not like that. It's a melange of several points, not well distilled. But the essence goes like:

1. France has a very powerful elite system and one specific route to get there (I'm not saying the engineering schools are that way). That's not controversial, that's just how it is.

2. This leads to a specific orthodoxy, symptomatic could be the centralism that leads to a strong centralization of power in Paris.

3. At the same time there is a very strong pro-nuclear sentiment that gets instilled into engineering students (conflicting and in context with a recent strong popularity of ecology), whatever mechanism specifically is responsible for that.

4. And France has (and even more so: had) a pro-nuclear government, linked to the enterprises running the power plants.

I'm not saying the engineers are incapable or specifically corrupt and to distrust your doctor, thanks you very much for the cancer thing, but that in this situation it is reasonable to have some distrust for security assessments of nuclear power plants in France.

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#124
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we (US) hadn't stopped building nuclear in the 80s, and had simply kept building at the same rate, our grid would be (near) zero carbon today . Not several decades from now if we hustle our asses off, today . But that's not what happened. The anti-nuclear team won and we collectively made the responsible decision to fill our atmosphere with CO2 instead. Yay?

Yes, that's the a common talking point that is false, "Nuclear energy does not produce CO2, or almost none". But you only see that it is false if you look at complete lifecycle analysis of building the plants, running the plants, mining and transporting the uranium, transportintg the waste, dismantling the plant etc. You can try to argue that the US would have less carbon emissions than today - something I'm inclined…

Did you even glance at the numbers?

    Tech       gCO2/kWh
    
    Coal         920 
    Gas          490
    Solar-Util    48
    Solar-Roof    41
    Solar-Conc    27
    Geothermal    38
    Hydro         24
    Wind-Offshore 12
    Nuclear       12  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse-gas_emis...

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#125
post #104
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of your arguments might be correct, and none of them matter to public opinion and politics. Maybe if they were less transparent, there would have been less political pressure from Germany... And I totally agree this is as dumb as it gets.

The fact that we know we can rank French nuclear plants by their transparency level is already seriously screwed up.

That's not what he said. That's not what the rapport said.

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#126
post #114
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly there is no uranium in France.

That's a false statement. There's enough uranium in France - it's just not cheap uranium and open pit mines in Africa are more economical. Additionally, France never had to even prospect for uranium ore, as incidentally many of their former colonies had plenty of potential for cheap open pit mining using cheap local workers.... For reference, just a few hundred kilometres east of their border, East Germany was the th…

Yes, sorry, that not commercialy viable to get this uranium.

> Additionally, France never had to even prospect for uranium ore

But this is false. (There is no english link sorry for that). https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/UraMin

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#127
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's the a common talking point that is false, "Nuclear energy does not produce CO2, or almost none". But you only see that it is false if you look at complete lifecycle analysis of building the plants, running the plants, mining and transporting the uranium, transportintg the waste, dismantling the plant etc. You can try to argue that the US would have less carbon emissions than today - something I'm inclined…

Did you even glance at the numbers? Tech gCO2/kWh Coal 920 Gas 490 Solar-Util 48 Solar-Roof 41 Solar-Conc 27 Geothermal 38 Hydro 24 Wind-Offshore 12 Nuclear 12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse-gas_emis...

It's my understanding that these numbers are not undisputed. Even https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1530-9290... lets enough opportunity to have that calculation be changed, though there does not seem to be any doubt that the emissions are minimal compared to fossil fuels. But that's not a point I made.

But you are right, I shouldn't have made it sound as if no one produced such numbers.

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#128

I can't find much information about the "Sustainability Times". But I'm somewhat certain it's a lobbying effort by the French nuclear industry. Almost every article seems to come around to saying "and nuclear power would be great", even when it starts with some solar power invention.

Actually, in the "contributor" pages, you can see there is several physisit or doctor working with nuclear, and people from https://www.sfen.org/

But you can also see that this is not just that, there is also scientifics who work on responsible sourcing of rare earth, sustainable agricultural tech. This is probably once agian a science-based newspaper that will never work. I've learn that if you want people to care about climate change, just don't talk about nuclear energy

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#129
post #117
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be cool if you sourced your statements like the article did. Like "we don't know what to do with it" which is a lie.

As someone in another field, well what do we do with nuclear waste? My guess is bury it somewhere else.

Currently it's stored in nuclear waste bin, in pools in a few hangar. There is plan to store the in a geological stable hole, that we known that it won't move for a long time.

> The Nuclear Safety Authority has confirmed that the rock has not moved for several million years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meuse/Haute_Marne_Underground_...

Also, I'm not in the field, i just like to inform myself before having an opinon. Too many times there is lies spread about nuclear facilities.

Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?

#130
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even glance at the numbers? Tech gCO2/kWh Coal 920 Gas 490 Solar-Util 48 Solar-Roof 41 Solar-Conc 27 Geothermal 38 Hydro 24 Wind-Offshore 12 Nuclear 12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse-gas_emis...

It's my understanding that these numbers are not undisputed. Even https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1530-9290... lets enough opportunity to have that calculation be changed, though there does not seem to be any doubt that the emissions are minimal compared to fossil fuels. But that's not a point I made. But you are right, I shouldn't have made it sound as if no one produced such numbers.

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