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Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
51–60 of 256 posts
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#52> The saddest part of this story is that there is no new renewable plant being built overnight to replace Fessenheim. It will be replaced almost entirely by fossil fuels. > It’s worth noting that, as Fessenheim closes, Germany is commissioning a new coal-fired power plant, in Datteln Exactly. Why are so many people ignoring what happens in step 2? When nuclear is shut down, it gets replaced with something worse. Ofte…
Nuclear is not safer than renewables. These statistics are false, they do not include everything involved with running the plants and gathering the ressources. They get repeated every time in these threads here and are refuted every time. Your first article is provided by a pro nuclear propaganda association. It's almost certainly also false. And ignores conveniently how much more unrecycable nuclear waste France was…
could you provide some sources on any of your claims, or any links to analysis that takes into account "everything involved with running the plants and gathering resources"?
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
> has a long history of low-level incidents If you actually bothered to read the ASN reports, you'd see that it's because it was one of the most transparent plant, hence the higher numbers. > Rhine valley is seismically active It is, which is why it was scaled for several times the biggest ever earthquake recorded (1365 IIRC, they derived the scale from models based on the damages it did). ASN deemed its security "ve…
All of your arguments might be correct, and none of them matter to public opinion and politics. Maybe if they were less transparent, there would have been less political pressure from Germany... And I totally agree this is as dumb as it gets.
"none of them matter to public opinion and politics"
You are absolutely right. Which is why others way more qualified than I (climatologists, nuclear engineers) are trying to debunk those fallacious arguments and slowly people seem to realise. I'm doing my part.
The very existence of this article and its present on HN front page is a sign that this is working.
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#54answer: short term political gain
Why is sensible behavior suddenly political?
The owner/operator of the facility, EDF, envisaged a 40 year life for all 2nd generation reactors. That would have meant the reactor would have been shut down 2 years ago.
It's in a flood zone and a 2011 commission found that it didn't have necessary redundant cooling in place should the canals around it fail.
It's in a seismically active area.
It's on a river over an aquifer so any leakage will have severe consequences.
It has to be shut down during heat waves because the excess heat it dumps into the neighboring river will kill wildlife.
In the last decade it has had a number of small incidents.
It has served it's purpose for longer than it's expected lifespan and it's being shutdown safely before a catastrophe happens.
The SOP of Capitalism to do it until something bad happens doesn't mesh with Nuclear power.
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel like, regardless of what the cause is, having numerous low-level incidents means it's not exactly "safe" as the title of the article suggests. Another user has commented that the plant is nearly 100 years old while the reactors are supposed to last only 40 years before being replaced.
Do you trust the service with the statuspage that is 100% green for all of history or the one that reports the occasional degradation?
Reporting accidents isn't the issue. It's having them on the regular and being past the standard operational period that worries me. Not sure why that's contentious.
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#56This article sounds too bad to be true in my ears. For example, Germany is shutting down their coal plants gradually until 2038 (why would they then commission one this year, as stated by the article?). I agree it sounds stupid to shut it down prematurely, and I agree the green movement (at least here in Sweden, and apparently also in France) is many times doing stupid things that actually harm the environment, but t…
Unfortunately it is all true, which is why people here in France are getting pissed and protesting it.
See https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-nuclear-protest/pr...
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#57They don't talk about nuclear waste highly toxic that is buried in the north east of France and that they don't know what to do with. Nuclear is good for environment temporarily, but on the long term, if we don't know how to reuse nuclear waste, it will be worse.
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are the consequences of the inevitable natural gas or coal power plant that will replace it? There's always a lot of talk about renewables, yet it seems that we still end up with a fossil fuel based powerplant. It's not like France is building new nuclear plants to replace the ones that are shutting down.
> There's always a lot of talk about renewables It's odd to pretend that renewables are all talk when at the moment I'm writing this France's power grid is 28% renewable[1]. And France still has lots of opportunities to expand, both solar and wind. You'd think with >4000km of coast line there'd be lots of space for offshore wind. [1] https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/FR and 60% nuclear, but the point still stands
In this case, we're taking offline an amount of nuclear power that exceeds the entire photovoltaic contribution to the French grid, and replacing it with power from a combined cycle plant in Germany. In turn, Germany is commissioning a new coal power plant, in part because of the increased French demand for electricity.
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#59It's weird of the article gives plenty of direct citations from nuclear operators, while at the same time acting like French 40+ year old fission tech doesn't have any issues [0] or sustainability problems, and how the French could dare to shut down one of their first reactors. Particularly in the context that most discussions surrounding nuclear fission power generation lead with "modern designs and reactors being s…
> Afaik originally the life-span for most reactors of that kind was 40 years
It is not. That number was made so that EDF would get a proper return of investment. Some plants based on the same design have been granted lifespan to 60 years in the US.
> how far past that are we willing to go?
As long as its safe. Why throw away something that works, is safe and reliable on the counts that some folks put out a number?
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nuclear is not safer than renewables. These statistics are false, they do not include everything involved with running the plants and gathering the ressources. They get repeated every time in these threads here and are refuted every time. Your first article is provided by a pro nuclear propaganda association. It's almost certainly also false. And ignores conveniently how much more unrecycable nuclear waste France was…
could you provide some sources on any of your claims, or any links to analysis that takes into account "everything involved with running the plants and gathering resources"?
And preferably "apples to apples"-- are we going to include the entire lifecycle of solar manufacturing, too?