Live data from Hacker News

The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

bloomberg.com

11–20 of 119 posts

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#11

What I say to my non-Greek friends is that Athens is a really beautiful city, because it is really ugly. I have yet to meet a person living in Athens that likes these buildings for any other reasons than that you've grew up in them. In fact, the houses made in what Greeks call "neo-classical" style are considered to be a major improvement. This is the style you can find in the area of Plaka, Metz etc.

I don't think any Greek likes them, but I think most of the problem is that each one looks different. They don't have a common aesthetic, so the city looks like you bumped your building tray and all your buildings fell over and now you can't be bothered to sort them all again.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#12
post #4

The part of the article that mentioned vertical stratification to avoid horizontal stratification hit a chord with me. I personally come from a family of great means but due to unique circumstances spent much of my childhood living in low income areas and having friends whose parents worked fast food jobs. I think it's the best thing that ever happened to me and I think we would have a better society if more people h…

That part jumped out at me, too.

> “There were wealthier people on the upper floors,” says Dragonas, “people who had just arrived from the countryside further down and poor students in the basement. That sort of vertical stratification inside a five-story building helped Athens to avoid horizontal stratification — there weren’t really neighborhoods that were only rich or only poor.

In the US before Brown v. Board, many cities were similarly integrated along racial and economic lines. It wasn't necessarily integrated within individual apartment buildings, but Blacks and whites would live in the same neighborhoods. When Brown v. Board mandated that schools integrate, racist whites, unwilling to let their children go to the same schools as Black children, fled to the suburbs, taking with them their disproportionate share of wealth and leaving behind impoverished Black ghettoes. Any Black families with the means soon made their own escape, and the downward spiral continued.

In many states, the vast majority of school funding comes from property taxes. So schools in wealthy neighborhoods are better funded than schools in poor neighborhoods, and this guarantees homes in wealthy school districts maintain their value since everyone wants their kids in those schools.

Here in Ohio, the state Supreme Court ruled that the system of public school funding relying on property taxes is unconstitutional over a decade ago, but nothing has changed.

I agree with you that economic segregation is huge societal ill. Studies show that poor folks are vastly better off when they live in economically diverse areas.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#13

You can't design a new city from the ground up and make it perfect. Cities grow organically over the time. Athens is one of the oldest inhabitated cities in the world. Growing up in Athens I really hated this ugly architecture but now I realize that nearly every little neighbourhood has it's own piece of history and every street is so full of life. I wouldn't trade that with any lifeless good-looking residential area…

But you have to balance that with the common aphorism that "we don't know our own neibhrous". We meet them when tennants' councils are held to discuss the koinoxrista[1], we bump into them on the stairs or the elevator, we bang on their doors to complain about the noise, perhaps- but other than that, a polykatoikia is not often a community, it's just a place where many people live their unconnected lives together wit…

To some people (including me), that just makes it better. I'm relatively social, but never knew who my neighbors were.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#15

You can't design a new city from the ground up and make it perfect. Cities grow organically over the time. Athens is one of the oldest inhabitated cities in the world. Growing up in Athens I really hated this ugly architecture but now I realize that nearly every little neighbourhood has it's own piece of history and every street is so full of life. I wouldn't trade that with any lifeless good-looking residential area…

But you have to balance that with the common aphorism that "we don't know our own neibhrous". We meet them when tennants' councils are held to discuss the koinoxrista[1], we bump into them on the stairs or the elevator, we bang on their doors to complain about the noise, perhaps- but other than that, a polykatoikia is not often a community, it's just a place where many people live their unconnected lives together wit…

Also happens here in Portugal, I thought it was pretty normal.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#17

That's where I grew up - amid the polykatoikies! It's very strange to see such a positive view of Athens. I mean, growing up, I can't remember anyone ever having a good thing to say about our own homes. Looking down from Lycabetus hill, Athens -rather the entire Attican basin from Penteli to Piraeus and from Parnitha to Hymmetus- looks covered with gray, frayed, books or document binders, or perhaps a mille-feuille w…

I was looking at the top image in this article and thinking "that'd be even more amazing if all those cars were kicked off that street and it was more pedestrianized." And in your comment you talk about the noise from the cars too. Cities are not loud, cars are loud.

I think many of the areas of issue you discuss with this could be solved, and many of the strengths that the article's author expresses could be maintained.

We learn something from each microexperiment in housing and city building.

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#18

Athens is so ugly that it comes the other way around. It looks like no other. When I travel around Europe I sometimes feel that all cities look the same. When I go to Athens I feel that I am not in Europe anymore, it's a different planet.

"all cities look the same"

Except, of course, for the one that has as a centrepiece a huge old fortress (still used by the local military) on the plug on an ancient volcano. ;-)

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#19
post #12
post #4

The part of the article that mentioned vertical stratification to avoid horizontal stratification hit a chord with me. I personally come from a family of great means but due to unique circumstances spent much of my childhood living in low income areas and having friends whose parents worked fast food jobs. I think it's the best thing that ever happened to me and I think we would have a better society if more people h…

That part jumped out at me, too. > “There were wealthier people on the upper floors,” says Dragonas, “people who had just arrived from the countryside further down and poor students in the basement. That sort of vertical stratification inside a five-story building helped Athens to avoid horizontal stratification — there weren’t really neighborhoods that were only rich or only poor. In the US before Brown v. Board, ma…

>In many states, the vast majority of school funding comes from property taxes. So schools in wealthy neighborhoods are better funded than schools in poor neighborhoods, and this guarantees homes in wealthy school districts maintain their value since everyone wants their kids in those schools.

In the US, school funding is (on average) progressive because federal and state funding more than offsets any local inequalities. See https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2017/06/22/no-us-school-f...

Re: The accidentally resilient design of Athens apartments

#20
post #6

You can't design a new city from the ground up and make it perfect. Cities grow organically over the time. Athens is one of the oldest inhabitated cities in the world. Growing up in Athens I really hated this ugly architecture but now I realize that nearly every little neighbourhood has it's own piece of history and every street is so full of life. I wouldn't trade that with any lifeless good-looking residential area…

Communities are interesting things - I grew up in a small fishing village in the north of Scotland which was extremely socially integrated - everyone went to the same school regardless if their parents were worth millions (and some were, although I only realised this years later) or were unemployed. Then I lived in Edinburgh's New Town for over 20 years which is utterly gorgeous but a bit lacking in community as ther…

My whole life growing up I was taught about how repressive the socially integrated model was, where everybody knows everybody, and how we should celebrate that the modern world has left it behind.

As time goes by, I'm starting to realize that while it can be very repressive for people who don't fit in, in trying to discard that model outright we've lost something incredibly important.

Post reply on HN