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The global fertility rate is falling

bbc.com

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Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#671

Post by godfreyantonell »

philshem wrote: post #374
gregfjohnson wrote: post #357

The Hacker News comment section tends to be factual, rational, and logical. So - this may be out of place, but here goes. When making decisions about whether or not to have children, we operate in a state of partial information. (This is of course true of all decisions.) I would like to contribute a bit of information. I'm 66, and have three children and four grandchildren. My adult children are the most wonderful pe…

Thank you for sharing. I'd like to add my experience that being a parent has made me a better child.

Definitely my experience as well.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#672

Post by Aeolun »

bananaface wrote: post #480
Apocryphon wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be logically valid, but it's pretty emotionally tone-deaf to blithely dismiss a long heartfelt personal account by saying "Survivor bias. Caveat emptor." Read the room, as they say.

I don't even think it's logically valid. I think if you raise your children well, the chance that they'll be there for you in old age is very high. If you don't have kids, the chance you will have friends that loyal is low. Blood is thicker than water, people should be realistic. How do you measure that statistically? All you have are personal experiences. Saying, "not statistics, isn't valid" is obtuse, it leaves yo…

> If you don't have kids, the chance you will have friends that loyal is low.

Probably have friends that loyal, but they’ll all be the same age and you might just end up being the last one.

Hopefully your kids have a comfortable margin on you in your old age.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#673

Post by bananaface »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #665
bananaface wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I posted anecdotes to contextualise the trend. I don't really think there's much point in getting hung up on them because my point is: poor people have more kids, on average, and this trend holds pretty much everywhere. The real question is: what is it about being rich that causes you to have less kids?

>what is it about being rich that causes you to have less kids? Are we talking locally rich or globally rich? People in industrialized (rich) nations don't have tons of kids because that's not how you get ahead in that kind of economy. Subsistence farmers have tons of kids because that's how they get ahead economically. Within richer nations richer people have fewer kids because the way social safety nets and social…

Well, the relationship holds at every level. It's true within and across societies. It doesn't matter if we're talking locally rich or globally rich.

I'm skeptical of local explanations because the relationship is so universal.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#674

Post by silveroriole »

austhrow743 wrote: post #638
silveroriole wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sucks knowing that you’re the reason your parents gave up hobbies, dreams, money, travel etc that they could otherwise have had. I know, like you, parents usually think it’s worth it but it’s not nice to think that my mom would probably have been a more fun, interesting person if I didn’t exist. The admittance that your life has to change and you have to give things up so that another human can do maybe things ins…

Maybe you know that specifically your mum was a fun and interesting person before having kids, but I think its important to keep in mind that some people are just boring. Not to say having kids is ever super easy but there are definitely people that live a pretty kid friendly lifestyle without them. It's important to keep this in mind because we do tend to place weight on others deciding to do something. It's why com…

Funnily enough, I’m the boring 9-5 suburb guy, it’s my parents who aren’t. I think my parents are more interesting and skilled than I might ever be. So I look at myself and I’m like, really, was I worth it? What else could they have done with that time? Of course they say I’m the best thing that ever happened but the reality is they moved elsewhere to work on new things before I reached 18... so I guess I wasn’t THAT exciting! :)

There are definitely people who WANT kids, like another commenter in this chain describes. I don’t get the impression MOST people are like that though. Anyone who suspects they might have regrets or will be giving things up... I don’t know if they should go through with it.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#675

Post by godfreyantonell »

pharke wrote: post #661
fiblye wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The demand for labor will go up, the supply will go down. Bad for the investor class looking for profits, good for reducing economic inequality. People will be able to profit from labor again. I'm not so sure about that. Loads of wealth is consolidated at the top, both in terms of economic class and age. People who got their jobs and attained management positions after barely graduating high school are demanding ba…

I think we need to ask ourselves why some of those things are the case. Why are the same jobs requiring higher levels of education now than they did in the past? If you've worked these jobs you know they don't require anything past a highschool education. Why is housing seen as something that must constantly increase in value? It doesn't, we've been through housing bubbles but people still cling to this belief and co…

Yes!

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#676

Post by sjg007 »

Kids are great. But you only have about 13 years with them until they decide want to hang out with their friends instead of you. Enjoy the journey. It is hard work though! Especially combined with the pressure and commitments of working.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#677

Post by OGWhales »

creato wrote: post #345

It is disturbing that people take for granted that this is an economic problem. This thread is full of people lamenting the fact that we could support X times as many people as we do now if we all just sacrifice Y. When I look around the world today, I think the biggest resource that is lacking is economic opportunity. Huge swathes of people are desperate, angry, and depressed, I think because there is no opportunity…

> A shrinking, aging population would fix this problem. The demand for labor will go up, the supply will go down. Bad for the investor class looking for profits, good for reducing economic inequality. People will be able to profit from labor again.

Growing populations can also reduce wealth inequality and lessen the importance of inherited wealth. These are complicated issues, to be sure.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#678

Post by samdixon »

nostromo wrote: post #391
gregfjohnson wrote: post #357

The Hacker News comment section tends to be factual, rational, and logical. So - this may be out of place, but here goes. When making decisions about whether or not to have children, we operate in a state of partial information. (This is of course true of all decisions.) I would like to contribute a bit of information. I'm 66, and have three children and four grandchildren. My adult children are the most wonderful pe…

This is a bit like hearing a successful startup founder speak about the joys of success. It’s absolutely correct, but it’s also just one data point. Keep in mind, most of the lonely old people you see have children. And I’m not sure it’s a good, caring thing to tell childless people that they will be lonely in old age, because it need not be true.

While I don't have the data to support it, I would imagine the chance of success raising a child versus the chance of a success with a startup are in favor of the former.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#679

Post by godfreyantonell »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #522
kasrkin623 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wants to live in Georgia though? I mean this unironically, there's not much to do in terms of entertainment and opportunities for a young 20 yo vs LA or NY

I'd gladly live in Georgia. I'm no longer 20 but that's beside the point :-)

Georgia would be ok. As long as I were in a more rural part. I don't much care for Atlanta. I would take Texas over Georgia.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#680

Post by xwdv »

minerjoe wrote: post #639
xwdv wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it seems to me like if you do not have children all the effort you would have spent raising them must be spent in cultivating social relationships throughout your life instead, otherwise you do not reap the benefits of child free life and will be alone and lonely in old age. So either way, there’s going to be work if you do not want to be alone. The worst is when you put in the work and end up alone anyway. No on…

Be the change you wish to be in the world. How many of y'all are visiting elederly and helping them now? If you never help the elderly now, how can you expect anything else than lonliness when you are in their place? One of the most tragic results of the "modern" American life is that we throw away are elderly as obsolete while any other sane societies treates them as the holders of wisdom.

That’s why we are obsessed with anti-aging, to avoid being seen as elderly, to avoid being treated as one.
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