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Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

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Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#31

Post by Nasrudith »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #28
Mvandenbergh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I believe that in the future, violence will occur to stop co2 emissions by force, By whom? All the most effective military forces in the world belong to the industrialised nations that are doing the emissions. Do you think Tokelau is going to land their marines in South China and Houston to shut down production?

Ecoterrorism, I’d guess is the idea. Especially since it’s attached to a mini manifesto.

That would explain the blatant projection of claiming Maltheusianism in industrial expansion when they are the exact opposite.

Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#32

Post by pfdietz »

An issue with this is release of nickel. The most easily weathered silicate, olivine, typically has several tenths of a percent nickel. I would want to make sure the croplands are not being progressively poisoned.

I wonder if it might be possible to actively strip methane and nitrous oxide from the atmosphere, as these are powerful greenhouse gases. I have some ideas how this might be done.

Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#33

Post by Someone »

sveme wrote: post #8

80 - 180 US$ for the removal of a ton of CO2 is far more than the cost of adding a ton of CO2 to the atmosphere (in Germany, currently around 10€/ton, I believe). In principle, removing a ton of CO2 needs to be cheaper than the cost of adding a ton of CO2.

“In principle, removing a ton of CO2 needs to be cheaper than the cost of adding a ton of CO2 (in Germany, currently around 10€/ton, I believe).”

I think it’s around $25 or €25 at the moment (neither https://ember-climate.org/carbon-price-viewer/ nor https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/co2-european... are clear about the currency)

The EU emission trading system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Emission_Tradin...), isn’t perfect, but it is having some effect, and restrictions are getting tightened over time.

Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#34

Post by mrfusion »

Is there any research on what the ideal co2 level is? I’m on the climate change team of course but is there a risk we overshoot and bring co2 too low? I’d just say we should know what we’re aiming for.

I guess plants like some amount of extra co2 so we’d think about that. Should we also have some kind of buffer between a future ice age?

Don’t get me wrong, I think bring the co2 level close to zero is a viable argument too.

Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#35

Post by GVIrish »

mrfusion wrote: post #34

Is there any research on what the ideal co2 level is? I’m on the climate change team of course but is there a risk we overshoot and bring co2 too low? I’d just say we should know what we’re aiming for. I guess plants like some amount of extra co2 so we’d think about that. Should we also have some kind of buffer between a future ice age? Don’t get me wrong, I think bring the co2 level close to zero is a viable argumen…

It's not really a mystery, we could just bring co2 levels back in line what they were at the beginning of the 20th century. Hell, even the 1950's levels of CO2 would be great.

But right now the carbon capture discussions are simply trying to avert disaster. None of the potential carbon capture solutions can remove so much carbon that we'll have to worry about removing too much co2.

Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#36

Post by GVIrish »

pfdietz wrote: post #32

An issue with this is release of nickel. The most easily weathered silicate, olivine, typically has several tenths of a percent nickel. I would want to make sure the croplands are not being progressively poisoned. I wonder if it might be possible to actively strip methane and nitrous oxide from the atmosphere, as these are powerful greenhouse gases. I have some ideas how this might be done.

Methane doesn't stay in the atmosphere very long though, so greenhouse gas capture efforts would be better spent on co2.

Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#37

Post by pfdietz »

GVIrish wrote: post #36
pfdietz wrote: post #32

An issue with this is release of nickel. The most easily weathered silicate, olivine, typically has several tenths of a percent nickel. I would want to make sure the croplands are not being progressively poisoned. I wonder if it might be possible to actively strip methane and nitrous oxide from the atmosphere, as these are powerful greenhouse gases. I have some ideas how this might be done.

Methane doesn't stay in the atmosphere very long though, so greenhouse gas capture efforts would be better spent on co2.

That's first point is true, but the second point doesn't necessarily follow. Methane is a quite powerful greenhouse gas, and it could be removed by in situ destruction (as it naturally is) rather than capture.

Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#38

Post by GVIrish »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #29
Klathmon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then let's raise the cost of adding a ton of CO2 to the atmosphere. We have been encouraging pollution since it's cheaper to just dump it than to reduce their production significantly or invest in capturing it. If the cost to remove it is $80-$100 USD, then that should be the cost of adding it. We should start demanding they either pay the costs associated with someone else having to deal with it, or reduce how much…

>Then let's raise the cost of adding a ton of CO2 to the atmosphere. >If the cost to remove it is $80-$100 USD, then that should be the cost of adding it. We should start demanding they either pay the costs associated with someone else having to deal with it, or reduce how much they dump into the air in the first place. This works until all the people who have enough trouble achieving a decent standard of living vote…

Correctly pricing in the negative externalities of burning fossil fuels is what will help us shift away from fossil fuels.

And if people are gonna be upset about a decrease in standard of living because they can't buy gas guzzling cars anymore or air travel is more expensive, they're really not going to like the drop in standard of living from climate change. Coastal flooding and storm surge is already destroying billions of dollars in real estate value. Houston has seen three 500-year floods in less than 5 years. We've seen the devastation from large scale wildfires in Australia and California. Subsistence fishermen in some parts of the world are already seeing their fisheries collapse.

If we don't get climate change under control we're not going to be talking about temporary pain while we shift to cleaner technology. We'll be looking at large scale climate refugee crises, collapses of industries, collapses of governments, and wide scale human misery.

Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#39

Post by GVIrish »

pfdietz wrote: post #37
GVIrish wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methane doesn't stay in the atmosphere very long though, so greenhouse gas capture efforts would be better spent on co2.

That's first point is true, but the second point doesn't necessarily follow. Methane is a quite powerful greenhouse gas, and it could be removed by in situ destruction (as it naturally is) rather than capture.

Yes, but that's kinda my point. Trying to remove methane from the atmosphere probably isn't a good use of resources. Methane capture at the source like what is being done at some waste processing plants makes sense though. And changing livestock feeds to reduce methane emissions seems like a no brainer.

Re: Potential large-scale CO2 removal via enhanced rock weathering with croplands

#40

Post by perfunctory »

mrfusion wrote: post #34

Is there any research on what the ideal co2 level is? I’m on the climate change team of course but is there a risk we overshoot and bring co2 too low? I’d just say we should know what we’re aiming for. I guess plants like some amount of extra co2 so we’d think about that. Should we also have some kind of buffer between a future ice age? Don’t get me wrong, I think bring the co2 level close to zero is a viable argumen…

> is there a risk we overshoot and bring co2 too low?

I had to laugh really hard at this one. Sorry.

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