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Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

e-resident.gov.ee

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Re: Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

#11

Post by kd5bjo »

schmookeeg wrote: post #9

Either this is completely not for me, or i don't get it. I contract from my US C corporation. That corporation pays me, at my US address. I pay taxes accordingly. In the US. Is Estonia trying to horn in on those personal earnings, claiming I earned them while being a tourist in their country? (illegally? gasp) What if I don't pay myself while in EE and just pay myself later? Are there services I might consume over an…

For most countries, visiting with a tourist visa means that it’s illegal to work while inside the country. The intent is to prevent you from entering the local job market, so most countries will turn a blind eye to tourists who don’t completely cut themselves off from their employer back home.

The actual laws haven’t been updated to officially allow that, though, so you’re operating in a legal grey area; especially if you have some non-vacation days in-country. This makes it unambiguously legal to take an extended vacation where you support yourself by continuing to work remotely.

Re: Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

#12

Post by DarthGhandi »

christiansakai wrote: post #10
jake_morrison wrote: post #7

I am hoping North Asian countries loosen up about visas. Right now it's easy to be a digital nomad or retiree in Thailand. Malaysia has My Second Home: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_My_Second_Home I expect things will get easier in North Asia as the effects of the aging population hit. I would love to be able to move to a small town in Japan to live the Totoro life with fast Internet. And no virus problems.

North Asia has too much problem by themselves already. They don’t need more foreigners money as they are already rich and would rather prevent Eternal September. Not all South East Asian countries are welcoming to foreigners as well. I.e., Indonesia. They have too many digital nomads causing trouble and contributing nothing locally. No skin in the game.

> contributing nothing locally

Someone earning $10 a day online from overseas sources is contributing far more than a local worker.

Re: Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

#13

Post by stockkid »

DarthGhandi wrote: post #12
christiansakai wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Asia has too much problem by themselves already. They don’t need more foreigners money as they are already rich and would rather prevent Eternal September. Not all South East Asian countries are welcoming to foreigners as well. I.e., Indonesia. They have too many digital nomads causing trouble and contributing nothing locally. No skin in the game.

> contributing nothing locally Someone earning $10 a day online from overseas sources is contributing far more than a local worker.

Could you elaborate how that might be the case? Is the argument that the $10 will somehow trickle down into the local economy?

Re: Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

#14

Post by sneak »

schmookeeg wrote: post #9

Either this is completely not for me, or i don't get it. I contract from my US C corporation. That corporation pays me, at my US address. I pay taxes accordingly. In the US. Is Estonia trying to horn in on those personal earnings, claiming I earned them while being a tourist in their country? (illegally? gasp) What if I don't pay myself while in EE and just pay myself later? Are there services I might consume over an…

US citizens only get up to 90 days at a time (out of a sliding 180 day window) in the Schengen zone (of which Estonia is a part) on the tourist allowance. If you are there for 90 days, you have to leave the whole Schengen zone for another 90 days before you can come back on another tourist allowance.

This offers a 1 year residence visa in Estonia, and makes it legal to work remotely while you are there.

Presumably they would also expect some income taxes while you are resident there (and working) during that year.

Re: Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

#15

Post by DarthGhandi »

stockkid wrote: post #13
DarthGhandi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> contributing nothing locally Someone earning $10 a day online from overseas sources is contributing far more than a local worker.

Could you elaborate how that might be the case? Is the argument that the $10 will somehow trickle down into the local economy?

How is it going somewhere else? If course it's being spent in the economy. Essentially it's an export of services.

For large amounts I'm sure some is saved but most workers whether local or foreign bringing in overseas dollars are contributing far more to overall improvement of the economy than someone working at a retail store earning the exact same amount while shuffling around domestic dollars.

Re: Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

#16

Post by disabled »

owenversteeg wrote: post #6
paxys wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure no work visa in the world grants the right of citizenship or permanent residence. I imagine for a lot of freelancers though demonstrating a sustained 3500 EUR/month income for at least 6 months prior to the application might be difficult. Overall this is very encouraging though, and I hope more countries start to realize the net gain in attracting such people who will contribute to the economy by paying t…

Well, plenty can lead to it eventually, usually offering some kind of pathway. Even the US provides pathways to permanent residence (and then citizenship) through employment. But yeah, I agree. 3500/mo is ~4000 usd/mo or ~48k USD/yr. Lots of traveling freelancers probably won't be able to show a minimum of that sustained for 6 months. I'd bet the bar was set intentionally high though, because they're bound to spend a…

> Well, plenty can lead to it eventually, usually offering some kind of pathway. Even the US provides pathways to permanent residence (and then citizenship) through employment.

The US has a lot of visas for longer term professional work, that do not allow you to obtain the right to permanent residency or citizenship, at least on paper (for example, one way to get in: these individuals however, are allowed to get married to a US citizen and can theoretically, at least, get in that way).

So, the US and Estonia are not much different, in this respect. But, in these situations, what it comes down to, in order to stay long term: formal in-person connections in the respective country.

Re: Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

#18

Post by topicseed »

DarthGhandi wrote: post #12
christiansakai wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Asia has too much problem by themselves already. They don’t need more foreigners money as they are already rich and would rather prevent Eternal September. Not all South East Asian countries are welcoming to foreigners as well. I.e., Indonesia. They have too many digital nomads causing trouble and contributing nothing locally. No skin in the game.

> contributing nothing locally Someone earning $10 a day online from overseas sources is contributing far more than a local worker.

The problem is that this leads to a raised prices due to foreigners' purchase power, and this pushes locals away. This is very problematic politically as very few people end up profiting from tourists.

Re: Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

#19

Post by christiansakai »

DarthGhandi wrote: post #12
christiansakai wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Asia has too much problem by themselves already. They don’t need more foreigners money as they are already rich and would rather prevent Eternal September. Not all South East Asian countries are welcoming to foreigners as well. I.e., Indonesia. They have too many digital nomads causing trouble and contributing nothing locally. No skin in the game.

> contributing nothing locally Someone earning $10 a day online from overseas sources is contributing far more than a local worker.

There’s so many thing wrong with this comment I don’t know where to start. How about we start with this. If you consider $10/day even a remotely decent salary then I don’t know what to say.

Re: Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

#20

Post by blaser-waffle »

kd5bjo wrote: post #11
schmookeeg wrote: post #9

Either this is completely not for me, or i don't get it. I contract from my US C corporation. That corporation pays me, at my US address. I pay taxes accordingly. In the US. Is Estonia trying to horn in on those personal earnings, claiming I earned them while being a tourist in their country? (illegally? gasp) What if I don't pay myself while in EE and just pay myself later? Are there services I might consume over an…

For most countries, visiting with a tourist visa means that it’s illegal to work while inside the country. The intent is to prevent you from entering the local job market, so most countries will turn a blind eye to tourists who don’t completely cut themselves off from their employer back home. The actual laws haven’t been updated to officially allow that, though, so you’re operating in a legal grey area; especially i…

I've worked remotely in several countries (Australia, UK, Canada, parts of the EU) in short stints (2-3 weeks to ~6 months), and for the most part the governments don't care much. As long as you're not conducting business related to that country -- like selling to locals or trying to get a local job -- no one will dig too hard. If they ask, you're just there to do an extended vacation or backpack.

Parent comment is right, though: it is sort of a legal gray area. If you plan on having a long-standing relationship with that country it's probably worth doing things legally, if possible.

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