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Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

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Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#391

Post by syshum »

Entalpi wrote: post #317
syshum wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not, I want to see the practice end on Gas Pumps. Every business should be requried to adversite, print, and clearly mark the amount of the tansaction is going to taxation Hiding taxation in the purchase price allows government to increase those tax rights with out facing the same amount of public back lash as they do when the taxation is calculated secretly from the transaction or advertised rate This is…

In every single transaction? Why if there were some form you sent in and recieved every year that contain exactly the financial transation for that year between you and the state.. hmm.

Personally I think we need to do away with automatic tax holdings in general

People should have to actively hand over money to the government, see the money in their account, and then see it removed for the exact purpose of government taxation

This is the only way to hold government to account for their massive overspending, which today is abstracted away to the point that people believe their tax refund check is the "government paying me money" instead of what is really is, the government taking to much money from you and then giving you back what they over seized

Any abstraction in government funding is a negative for government accountability

If people had to physcially spend a payment larger than their mortgage every month to the government they would quickly start to ask "Why I am paying so much" and "what am i actually getting for this money"

Instead the government slyly takes the money before people even realize they had it, sure they get a pay stub but it is not "real money" that was ever in their physical possession, most people do not even look at their Gross income only the amount physically put into their bank account.

This subtle difference is factored into how government has structured taxation to ensure very limited accountability

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#392

Post by JoeAltmaier »

jhoechtl wrote: post #29
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #14

Go further. I haven't used coins in 10 years. Get coins - put them all in the 'penny tray'. Or give them to the cashier. Or hand them to somebody nearby. All else fails, toss them in the trash as I leave the store.

Trashing money is illegal and sounds very unethical to me.

Nope. Currency (paper money) is protected; I don't think coins are at all. Witness all the jewelry made from coins.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#393

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nix23 wrote: post #33
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #14

Go further. I haven't used coins in 10 years. Get coins - put them all in the 'penny tray'. Or give them to the cashier. Or hand them to somebody nearby. All else fails, toss them in the trash as I leave the store.

>All else fails, toss them in the trash as I leave the store That Joe is a BIG Asshole move.

? How can this affect you at all? Is this some projection of insecurity?

Remember <$1 in change would buy ... almost nothing. Some gum? 20 minutes on a parking meter?

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#394

Post by ShorsHammer »

paulie_a wrote: post #62
ShorsHammer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly can't understand why any country on Earth is still using paper for notes. Is basic materials science some bizarre foreign concept? And for anyone who thinks otherwise, I'm going for a swim with $300 in my pocket.

American currency isn't paper. It's more akin to cloth than anything else. And you can go swimming with 300 in bills in the USA. They are not going to melt and will be just fine even if submerged for hours. There are absolutely better materials to use, no argument there. But US paper currency are not even close to being fragile.

It's nowhere near as good as it could be and the costs for damage replacement are astronomical.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#395

Post by kerkeslager »

dhosek wrote: post #390
kerkeslager wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The US, however, does not. Additionally, the terms of use of credit card companies forbids charging a different price for cash versus card. This means that businesses which aren't large enough to negotiate different terms, have to raise prices across the board to cover the cost of credit card payments--even using cash, you're paying rent to the credit card companies.

If you're paying cash you're not paying anything to the credit card companies. What you are doing is subsidizing my rewards cash back by giving the merchant a slightly higher margin on your purchases so allowing them to charge slightly less on my credit card purchase. Or else you're just giving them extra money and that's the end of it.

> If you're paying cash you're not paying anything to the credit card companies. What you are doing is subsidizing my rewards cash back

Please think through how pedantic this "correction" would be even if the credit card company were charitably passing all their fees to you as cash back, which I assure you, they are not doing.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#397

Post by jakeogh »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #369
jakeogh wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take sales tax over income tax; it's unconstutional in more than one way and an astounding waste of resources. RIP Aaron Russo.

> it's unconstutional in more than one way There was an entire amendment specifically declaring the ability to levy (unapportioned) income tax. It was sufficiently passed, and overrides everything else that came before it. You can't play a game of 'gotcha' and invalidate something like that off the way you want a word interpreted or some bureaucratic misstep.

Lets assume the 16th was ratified (it wasnt, but set that aside). One might ask the IRS Comissioner where the law is, plenty of IRS agents have tried: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNNeVu8wUak

It's also a rather obvious violation of the 5th. The gov does not own us; it's the other way around.

So far 9 states have removed state income tax completely: AL, TN, FL, NH, SD, WY, TX, WA, NE. A good start; seems to really bother the authortarians.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#398

Post by Dylan16807 »

jakeogh wrote: post #397
Dylan16807 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's unconstutional in more than one way There was an entire amendment specifically declaring the ability to levy (unapportioned) income tax. It was sufficiently passed, and overrides everything else that came before it. You can't play a game of 'gotcha' and invalidate something like that off the way you want a word interpreted or some bureaucratic misstep.

Lets assume the 16th was ratified (it wasnt, but set that aside). One might ask the IRS Comissioner where the law is, plenty of IRS agents have tried: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNNeVu8wUak It's also a rather obvious violation of the 5th. The gov does not own us; it's the other way around. So far 9 states have removed state income tax completely: AL, TN, FL, NH, SD, WY, TX, WA, NE. A good start; seems to really…

Where what law is? And something like this can't be undone by being clever. The intent of congress is for income tax to exist, and so it is enforced by the executive, under the supervision of the judiciary. That's all that really matters. And the case law is solid on how to interpret the rules.

The most that could happen is congress going 'oh, that was worded badly' and fixing the wording.

The 16th amendment cannot be in violation of the 5th. That's not how amending works.

Also doesn't that argument apply to all taxes? It seems pretty clear that blocking all taxes was not the intent, based on the rest of the constitution.

> A good start; seems to really bother the authortarians.

Really? I've never seen anyone bothered by that. Sounds fun to watch.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#399

Post by jakeogh »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #398
jakeogh wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets assume the 16th was ratified (it wasnt, but set that aside). One might ask the IRS Comissioner where the law is, plenty of IRS agents have tried: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNNeVu8wUak It's also a rather obvious violation of the 5th. The gov does not own us; it's the other way around. So far 9 states have removed state income tax completely: AL, TN, FL, NH, SD, WY, TX, WA, NE. A good start; seems to really…

Where what law is? And something like this can't be undone by being clever. The intent of congress is for income tax to exist, and so it is enforced by the executive, under the supervision of the judiciary. That's all that really matters. And the case law is solid on how to interpret the rules. The most that could happen is congress going 'oh, that was worded badly' and fixing the wording. The 16th amendment cannot b…

It's a good doc, check it out.

All taxes: no. Tarrifs for example are... excellent ethical and thoroughly constitutional.. Otherwise country X can just attack with slave labor.

Inalienable rights aren't called that because they can be overridden.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#400

Post by efreak »

gbear605 wrote: post #313
ciceryadam wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why is it possible for gasoline, and not for other items?

At a gas station, they have between one and four prices (diesel, regular, premium, and premium plus, or whatever your station calls it). So it’s easy for them to adjust those four numbers. At a grocery store selling thousands or tens of thousands of items, it’s a huge task to set the price tag for each item. So instead (or so I’ve heard), prices tags are produced by the grocery store’s corporate office. This would be…

The price tags come on a 8.5x11 sheet, just like address labels. A stack arrives (monthly? Weekly? Not sure) from corporate in an envelope. I'm not sure what happens when the tag gets lost; fortunately those are usually the handwritten signs falling into carts. Price tags really should just be printed at the store.

I doubt if most price tags last more than a month at clothing stores, maybe a year at grocery/other large chain stores. Department stores and trendy fashion stores have too many sales and don't keep the same items in stock year round anyways.

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