The global fertility rate is falling • Hacker News Board

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#71

Post by Guy2020 » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:24 AM UTC

tclancy wrote: post #25

Guy2020 wrote: post #16

Children have become more of a burden than a benefit in many ways. We once had much use for our children. When people were more independent and everyone pretty much had a small business, children were seen as the life blood of that business. Now, we are pretty much expected to fill a role at some large corporation -- which Japan is the greatest example of. Also, the family centered culture has changed to a work cente…

I started to read this waiting for the punchline to a Dad joke. Kids can still mow lawns for sure. >This stuff is being pushed from the top. Is this some kind of Sparta thing? Like you all go up to the top of the mountain and someone pushes Dad off? Because if you actually mean there's a "top" that is dictating human sexuality I am deeply, deeply interested in seeing a schematic diagram for how that system works. >It…

Some people have extraordinary wealth and they have the ability to set economic incentives, policies, and cultural influences for certain types of behavior to emerge. There's a hierarchy to our societies, there are people with great power and people with little to no power. I guess the greatest magic trick of the modern world is to make people believe such things do not exist.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#72

Post by alkibiades » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:25 AM UTC

i think the main question is if people want kids but aren’t having them for economic reasons or if they simply don’t want them.

the latter seems fine to me but we still need to solve the problem of paying for the social security ponzi scheme and will have to deal with increased labor costs (which could be a good thing)

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#73

Post by sandworm101 » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:25 AM UTC

Guy2020 wrote: post #16

Children have become more of a burden than a benefit in many ways. We once had much use for our children. When people were more independent and everyone pretty much had a small business, children were seen as the life blood of that business. Now, we are pretty much expected to fill a role at some large corporation -- which Japan is the greatest example of. Also, the family centered culture has changed to a work cente…

It isn't just the choices. Young people are having less sex. Japan has noticed this. Declining sales of contraceptives but declines in both STDs and pregnancies, especially amongst the young. Incidents of the "oops we are pregnant" scenario have declined all over the western world. Western culture has for decades complained that young people have too liberal a view of sex. Remember those abstinence pushes in the 80s and 90s? Remember purity rings? They worked.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#74

Post by mindfulhack » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:25 AM UTC

dutch3000 wrote: post #12

another chicken little article. worthless speculation about the future. who knows what will happen if the population declines. one thing is for certain though. it will be a positive for the environment. at some point the ponzi scheme, infinite growth society must have it’s day of reckoning

I support this sentiment 100%.

In human population, we should be aiming for quality, not quantity. Quality also means diversity.

If higher quantity unavoidably brings a higher proportion of human suffering, then we have no other choice but to promote quality over quantity. I fear for the future of our species. Our evolutionary instinct to multiply combined with the tech we've created is now bringing this planet to the brink.

Everyone wants to exist. But I would rather exist in a positive way, than exist at all.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#75

Post by silisili » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:25 AM UTC

epx wrote: post #42

young_unixer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of that problem is that most nations have a pension system where the active work force pays for the pension of the elder instead of each person paying their own pension by saving/investing troughout their lives.

The boomers will have to accept a haircut. This is a matter of time.

The boomers will be dead long before the system shocks itself. Probably the tail end of Gen Xers or Millenials that will get royally screwed, if I had to guess.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#76

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:25 AM UTC

asperous wrote: post #59

Adding to the discussion, population density seems to cause lower birth rates: https://www.jstor.org/stable/27503981?seq=1 To me that seems like a natural feedback loop. Once population declines to a certain level people will want to have more kids.

[deleted]

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#77

Post by hammock » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:26 AM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #54

Guy2020 wrote: post #16

Children have become more of a burden than a benefit in many ways. We once had much use for our children. When people were more independent and everyone pretty much had a small business, children were seen as the life blood of that business. Now, we are pretty much expected to fill a role at some large corporation -- which Japan is the greatest example of. Also, the family centered culture has changed to a work cente…

It also just costs more to do basic things. Buying a house, finding an apartment, college, finding a job (more competitive), there’s trends of more loneliness and lack of community, you have to learn graphql now, it doesn’t end, and so by the time you find yourself stable in all these things you’re much older, and well, worn out. Starting a family used to be the first thing you did, but now it’s more of the capstone…

Not sure why you're downvoted. Your point strikes me as worthy of consideration

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#78

Post by TOGoS » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:26 AM UTC

kilroy_jones wrote: post #23

grugagag wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes for the planet and yes for the human race too, overpopulation leads to all sort of problems The economy should adapt not the other way around

Agreed, but no one seems to know how we decouple the economy from growth without hurting or angering a lot of people. Maybe we just tear off that bandaid quickly.

The number of people who would be adversely 'negatively' affected if we said "alright, we're taking control of this situation and not just going to blindly let you maximize your profits at the expense of the rest of the planet" is pretty small. A few millionaires and billionaires. The majority of us will adapt just fine.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#79

Post by grugagag » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:27 AM UTC

aylmao wrote: post #19

eranimo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for the economy

Guess it's time to re-structure the economy away from "who can consume and produce most".

It should be who can produce the most efficient and consume the most efficient. We should go back to building solidly and everlasting. The investment may be initially more expensive but the return will compound quickly and the benefits will make a difference. We’re wasting so many resources to stir this stupid economy and it always crashes.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#80

Post by dropit_sphere » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 3:27 AM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #27

Why is immigration not the answer to this? Eventually developed countries are going to have to get over their bigotry and open the borders.

It depends on what you define "this" as. If the problem is simply "not enough people," that of course is easy to remedy.

I hear zoos have trouble getting pandas to mate. Why don't they just add some polar bears, or leopards, or even rabbits?

What do you think the pandas would say if they could talk?