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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#481

Post by fakedang »

Taek wrote: post #227
nemothekid wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm saying Tesla is successful because of Elon's hype. They are not "forgiving" his misgivings, they fully believe Elon will solve world hunger and invent FTL space travel. If you ask anyone who's bought into Tesla, they will tell you the "Auto Pilot on airplanes" lie, but they also believe Elon will deliver on Level 5 Autonomous driving. No cares about electric cars, they care about the guy's company who is usin…

> they fully believe Elon will solve world hunger and invent FTL space travel Well, maybe not fully believe, but certainly believe that Elon will move the needle materially in the right direction. I'd much rather spend my money on a product that supports a billionaire who is determined to save the world (Elon) than I would spend my money on a product that supports a billionaire who seems determined to take it over at…

And what's stopping Elon from taking over the world at any cost?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#483

Post by petre »

ashtonkem wrote: post #427
Animats wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s Chief Executive Elon Musk said this month the electric car manufacturer was close to making its cars capable of automated driving without any need for driver input, so-called Level 5 autonomy. Yeah, right. Tesla has only Level 2 self-driving. They've never demonstrated Level 3 outside a video of a demo in Palo Alto. They wouldn't even let the press take a ride. Google/Waymo has hundreds of self-driving vehicl…

I’m genuinely surprised there hasn’t been a class action lawsuit over selling “full self driving” on Tesla vehicles. That’s been going on long enough to tip over from “over-optimistic” to “straight forward fraud”.

That's probably because the claimants are already deceased.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#484

Post by computerex »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #466
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances - https://www.tesla.com/model3 Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. - https://www.tesla.com/model3/design Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53349313

>All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances Probably true. >Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. It does. Poorly but it's gotten a lot better. >Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. A CEO making optimistic projections. Where are these li…

> Probably true.

That's merely speculation. Speculation and projections shouldn't be marketed as fact. The fact is that Tesla has no where near the capability of full self-driving now, and they aren't even remotely close. So claiming that the current hardware configuration will be enough seems foolishly optimistic at best and deceitful at worst. If they were very close to the milestone then perhaps claims like that would have more weight.

> It does. Poorly but it's gotten a lot better.

Look at the myriad of videos on YT demonstrating how spectacularly the car fails in doing this.

> A CEO making optimistic projections.

> Where are these lies?

There is a difference between making optimistic projections that are realistic and achievable based on current capabilities and data, and what Elon Musk has said with Tesla and FSD. Mark my words, he is just going to shift the goal-post, like he always does. And he is going to cheat customers out of thousands of dollars.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#485

Post by rising-sky »

dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

Uhm, it's "similar" to how autopilot works on commercial airplanes. And they have two human pilots.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#487

Post by jiggawatts »

bjarneh wrote: post #328
hudon wrote: post #181

I own a Tesla and love it. Having said that, “full self driving” is so far off what it actually does it’s actually not just a marketing issue, it is a safety issue. I’ve had my Tesla drive towards an incoming lane, slam on the breaks in the middle of the highway with no cars in front of us, swerve into another lane with no warning, and probably other hiccups I don’t remember. I know now I not only need to keep my han…

> I need to actively make sure the car doesn’t kill us Same experience here. Why people say this is relaxing; and takes the stress away from long distance driving is beyond me...

When I test drove a Tesla for a weekend my opinion of the Autopilot was the same as the car's owner: "It drives like a learner driver". Just like the nervous parent teaching their teenager to drive, this is not a relaxing experience.

However, the speed-adaptive cruise control is the best I've ever experienced. It maintains the set speed exactly, slows down for corners automatically, and follows the car in front as if there was a steel rod connecting the two vehicles.

Using the cruise control in the Tesla was some of the most relaxing long-distance driving I've ever done in my life...

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#488

Post by atonalfreerider »

lolc wrote: post #476
atonalfreerider wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FAA guideline is "ready to fly manually" -> key word "manual" from the Latin manus meaning "hand". Tesla is going a step further by requiring hands-on contact at all times, which makes this system a MORE restrictive autopilot. Contrary to what has been posted in other comments, pilots don't just get up and start walking around the aircraft. There must be one pilot always ready to take IMMEDIATE control of the air…

Being semantically right does not help against technically colliding. I can hook up an avian autopilot to a car to keep my bearing. While this is semantically a car with an autopilot, the contraption is useless on a road. When I talk about autopilots, I'm talking about a system that allows me to disengage from steering. Literally by employing a self-steerer. The Tesla "Autopilot" does not permit this because I still…

I'm sorry, I'm terribly confused by your logic.

> hook up an [aircraft] autopilot to a car

This sounds histrionic

> semantically a car with an autopilot

??

> Literally by employing a self-steerer. The Tesla Autopilot does not permit this

This is not how Tesla autopilot works.

If you are genuinely asking my opinion, I would very much like to see this technology in the driver seat of more vehicles on the road as soon as possible. Where distracted drivers kill 9 people PER DAY in the US [0], if an autopilot system (speaking about the current one available today) is anything less than that, then it is well worth it.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/distracted_driving/in...

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#489

Post by MereInterest »

FireBeyond wrote: post #421
Animats wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s Chief Executive Elon Musk said this month the electric car manufacturer was close to making its cars capable of automated driving without any need for driver input, so-called Level 5 autonomy. Yeah, right. Tesla has only Level 2 self-driving. They've never demonstrated Level 3 outside a video of a demo in Palo Alto. They wouldn't even let the press take a ride. Google/Waymo has hundreds of self-driving vehicl…

Exactly. He said this in 2014. 2016. 2018. Even at the end of 2019: > "You'll be able to FSD, coast to coast, by the end of this year". Meanwhile Teslas are still having a multitude of autopilot accidents that, had a human been paying attention (their fault, I understand), would not have happened - plowing at speed into fire engines with emergency lighting on, plowing into overturned semi trailers blocking multiple f…

> (their fault, I understand)

Humans are horrendous at maintaining constant attention to a task that only requires sporadic attention. If there is a human in the control loop, then it needs to take into account human limitations. Therefore, I'd be very hesitant to assign these as being the fault of the passenger who happens to be sitting in a driver seat.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#490

Post by readams »

ghaff wrote: post #480
saddlerustle wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo is not currently offering any rides. Their service has been suspended for riders since March.

Given Alphabet/Google's record of shutting down moonshots--or really services more broadly--what are the odds that Waymo is going to be around in a few years, especially if there'a a serious ad-tech fallout? ADDED: Google has been pretty clear that they're only interested in door-to-door self-driving and not in incremental driver assistance or freeway-only hands-off. If that goal turns out to be something for an inde…

Waymo is worth billions, on the order of 30 billion. They will not just shut it down. A sale or spinoff is possible but not a shutdown.
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