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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#461

Post by Robotbeat »

ummonk wrote: post #314
Robotbeat wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly did his companies deliver, that experts said was impossible, in the technological sense I mean? Landing the Falcon 9 booster on a droneship. As a physicist, I never believed it was impossible (the bar for “impossible” is rather high in physics) and yet an expert in the field told me it was!

I mean, people had demonstrated VTOL rocket landings before SpaceX came along. It was obviously just a matter of scaling it up and throwing tons of engineering man hours and test money at it, as SpaceX did.

Oh, absolutely. And yet... the consensus among most of the oldguard was that that approach wouldn't work. Many in the industry thought that reuse had effectively failed due to the lessons of Shuttle and the real future lie in expendables. Additionally, the old guard at NASA that WERE into reuse were generally for single-stage, horizontal landing architectures. In the specific case of the GNC specialist that told me it was impossible, he actually said this AFTER SpaceX had proved Falcon 9 VTVL on land! He thought the relative motion of the droneship would make the landing effectively impossible... I disagreed.

The phrase "hindsight is 2020" applies to Elon's accomplishments in spades... anything he hasn't achieved yet is an "obvious con" and "impossible" while past achievements were "merely a matter of throwing engineers at the problem"...

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#462

Post by SheinhardtWigCo »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #418
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #25

Good. These statements are lies. The company should face punishment in the US for saying that full self-driving is blocked by “regulatory approval” when they’re still an unknown number of years away from even being able to demo something they plan to ship. They still don’t know if full self-driving is even possible at the required level of reliability with their current hardware suite. They could well be wrong and si…

Which statements? This is what they say when you select the full self driving option when ordering a car: >The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may tak…

All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances - https://www.tesla.com/model3

Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. - https://www.tesla.com/model3/design

Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53349313

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#463

Post by Robotbeat »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #380
Robotbeat wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to address this because in spite of Elon (whether punching down with Twitter or COVIDiocy, etc) burning up a lot of the goodwill he had accumulated in the past, these things remain: The reason people think Elon may do level 5 autonomy is because his companies have accomplished several things that industry experts said were either infeasible or impossible. Fast charging, large-battery electric cars that are fas…

> hen when they proposed propulsive landing, some NASA experts in the field thought it’d fail. I know one NASA GNC guy who said drone ship landing is impossible. Propulsive landing was not a spacex innovation. They simply picked back up the research agenda of Delta Clipper.

There is one aspect that SpaceX absolutely pioneered: supersonic retropropulsion. NASA was actually planning on testing it as it's needed for landing heavy payloads on Mars, but SpaceX figured it out for "free."

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#464

Post by muzika »

thekyle wrote: post #357
lazyjones wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides the Model 3's crazy acceleration, and automatic lane changing, I think the Accord matches or exceeds a Model 3 in every single way Except noise, pollution, complexity/maintenance cost, OTA updates, large touchscreen navigation that gets updated continuously, having to visit gas stations etc. etc. ICE is just obsolete technology. Half the performance at 10 times the noise and infinitely more pollution.

I like EVs but the biggest thing that prevents me from buying one is range anxiety. I say this because I think it's funny that you consider having to visit gas stations a weakness of ICE, when I consider it the only reason to still own an ICE.

I own a Tesla, and it’s really nice to never worry about “filling up” except on long distance trips. Gas stations are such an annoyance that some day will be a thing of the past.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#465

Post by bananabreakfast »

thekyle wrote: post #357
lazyjones wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides the Model 3's crazy acceleration, and automatic lane changing, I think the Accord matches or exceeds a Model 3 in every single way Except noise, pollution, complexity/maintenance cost, OTA updates, large touchscreen navigation that gets updated continuously, having to visit gas stations etc. etc. ICE is just obsolete technology. Half the performance at 10 times the noise and infinitely more pollution.

I like EVs but the biggest thing that prevents me from buying one is range anxiety. I say this because I think it's funny that you consider having to visit gas stations a weakness of ICE, when I consider it the only reason to still own an ICE.

Superchargers have basically eliminated range anxiety.

They are absolutely everywhere and barely add time to any long trip that isn't completely cross country.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#466

Post by tenuousemphasis »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #462
tenuousemphasis wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which statements? This is what they say when you select the full self driving option when ordering a car: >The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may tak…

All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances - https://www.tesla.com/model3 Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really. - https://www.tesla.com/model3/design Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53349313

>All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances

Probably true.

>Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.

It does. Poorly but it's gotten a lot better.

>Tesla will be able to make its vehicles completely autonomous by the end of this year, founder Elon Musk has said.

A CEO making optimistic projections.

Where are these lies?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#467

Post by tenuousemphasis »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #454
tenuousemphasis wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which statements? This is what they say when you select the full self driving option when ordering a car: >The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may tak…

We need to break this down and examine it part by part and in whole as it’s extremely ambiguous to me what this is saying.

Go ahead and read it slowly a few times. It's clear to me.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#468

Post by saalweachter »

thekyle wrote: post #357
lazyjones wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides the Model 3's crazy acceleration, and automatic lane changing, I think the Accord matches or exceeds a Model 3 in every single way Except noise, pollution, complexity/maintenance cost, OTA updates, large touchscreen navigation that gets updated continuously, having to visit gas stations etc. etc. ICE is just obsolete technology. Half the performance at 10 times the noise and infinitely more pollution.

I like EVs but the biggest thing that prevents me from buying one is range anxiety. I say this because I think it's funny that you consider having to visit gas stations a weakness of ICE, when I consider it the only reason to still own an ICE.

I've been very happy with my Chevy Volt.

The 50+- electric range is plenty for my commute or running a few errands; it's weird to think that when you have hundreds of miles of range, you're mostly lugging around 3+x the amount of batteries you need on average, "just in case", like that XKCD comic. Instead, I lug around a generator and 8 gallons of unleaded, "just in case".

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#469

Post by summerlight »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #418
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #25

Good. These statements are lies. The company should face punishment in the US for saying that full self-driving is blocked by “regulatory approval” when they’re still an unknown number of years away from even being able to demo something they plan to ship. They still don’t know if full self-driving is even possible at the required level of reliability with their current hardware suite. They could well be wrong and si…

Which statements? This is what they say when you select the full self driving option when ordering a car: >The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may tak…

https://www.zdnet.com/article/teslas-elon-musk-our-fully-aut...

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#470

Post by bananabreakfast »

hef19898 wrote: post #269
Robotbeat wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to address this because in spite of Elon (whether punching down with Twitter or COVIDiocy, etc) burning up a lot of the goodwill he had accumulated in the past, these things remain: The reason people think Elon may do level 5 autonomy is because his companies have accomplished several things that industry experts said were either infeasible or impossible. Fast charging, large-battery electric cars that are fas…

What exactly did his companies deliver, that experts said was impossible, in the technological sense I mean? Reusable rockets, deemed possible but not economic due to the low number of launches. SpaceX delivered amazing stuff, so, but nothing impossible. EVs were a thing already 100 years ago, so technically totally feasible, as is mass production. And the battery tech is to large part Panasonic. Still impressive wha…

This is some serious revisionist history right here.

No one was talking about technically possible. We're not discussing space elevators.

The key point is combining economic feasibility with the prevailing cultural will.

Of course electric cars exist. GM made a bunch of them in the 90s and literally forcibly recalled them and crushed them into tiny cubes in front of their owners. They held a candle light vigil. The documentary about this is what inspired Musk to get involved with Tesla in the first place. There was clearly passionate market demand that was being suffocated and purposefully ignored by bloated incumbents who couldn't see anything past their bottom line and they lost track of the market.

Americans are sick of excuses for space travel. The USA is made entirely out of a culture of optimism and all the aerospace companies have nothing to show for meaningful progress as they collect their massive government checks. SpaceX is the first group to ever over promise and then also over deliver. They don't give excuses, they get results.

There is hype because these are the first companies since the post war utopia that are actually making things again that are fundamentally changing our transportation reality with technology.

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