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U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#201

Post by stu2b50 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #186
lefrenchy wrote: post #112

Such an embarrassing blunder, of many blunders, for this administration.

I was under the impression that the law that was already in place was that purely online courses were not allowed. And that it had been in place for a long time. After coming out and stating "this is already the law", and resulting pushback against it, the thing changed by this administration was to allow purely online courses for visa students. Are you saying that allowing purely online learning for students with vi…

The blunder was retracting the special exception made during Spring 2020 that allowed F and M visa students to take online classes.

The pandemic is far from over, especially in the US, a fact which is obvious to everyone. The retraction is pure stupidity. Of course it would be unreasonable to ask int students to attend in person classes given the situation.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#202

Post by abvdasker »

jimbob45 wrote: post #134

This is genius. If you assume that the Trump Administration did this to show their base that they're serious about deporting foreigners to garner election votes, then you can conclude that they've managed to do that with as much publicity as possible at virtually no cost financially. It's likely they knew this would never go through and didn't want a knockdown drag-out fight in the courts. However, they still capital…

At this point the Trump admin is likely to do everything possible to try and drive the news cycle away from the pandemic. Everything the current administration does until the election should be understood through that lens.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#203

Post by throwawaygh »

WalterBright wrote: post #188
throwawaygh wrote: post #182

I'm not relieved. Or, only partially relieved. One of the core arguments was that the Feds can't pull funds for their stated purpose, which was to encourage/force schools to open ("The government has provided no reason for its abrupt and unexplained shift. That is unsurprising, since... its purpose—as expressed by Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli—is to 'encourage schools to reopen.' In esse…

The federal government did use the threat of withdrawal of highway funds to get all 50 states to lower the speed limit to 55.

CONGRESS used the threat of withdrawal of highway funds to get all 50 states to lower the speed limit to 55.

From my quote of the amicus brief: Defendants have thus violated the APA by promulgating a policy based on factors WHICH CONGRESSS DID NOT INTEND IT TO CONSIDER

( the all-caps is for emphasis because I can't see italics well anymore and HN doesn't have bold; I'm not yelling :) )

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#204

Post by cortesoft »

WalterBright wrote: post #188
throwawaygh wrote: post #182

I'm not relieved. Or, only partially relieved. One of the core arguments was that the Feds can't pull funds for their stated purpose, which was to encourage/force schools to open ("The government has provided no reason for its abrupt and unexplained shift. That is unsurprising, since... its purpose—as expressed by Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli—is to 'encourage schools to reopen.' In esse…

The federal government did use the threat of withdrawal of highway funds to get all 50 states to lower the speed limit to 55.

For something like this, it really matters which part of the federal government takes the action.

The important part is maintaining separation of powers... making sure the Executive branch doesn't overstep its authority into the legislative branch territory.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#205

Post by rdiddly »

threeseed wrote: post #198
rdiddly wrote: post #192

Show of hands, who looks around today at the biggest challenges and problems we face, the ones that affect the greatest numbers of people the most perniciously, and that need swift & decisive solutions at almost any cost, and concludes that they're the ones having to do with foreign students being in the country taking online classes?

a) The government can do more than one thing at a time. b) Given that so many startups were founded by immigrants who studied here I would consider it a pretty important issue to address.

a) I think it probably can't do any things.

b) They addressed it by trying to make them go home, get it now?

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#206

Post by rdiddly »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #196
rdiddly wrote: post #192

Show of hands, who looks around today at the biggest challenges and problems we face, the ones that affect the greatest numbers of people the most perniciously, and that need swift & decisive solutions at almost any cost, and concludes that they're the ones having to do with foreign students being in the country taking online classes?

Narcissistic populist racists. "It's not me, it's you."

It's too bad populist has become a dirty word, because in theory it sounds great - i.e. democracy.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#207

Post by RobRivera »

LordFast wrote: post #103

Elementary school politics. This would be a hilarious sitcom if it weren't for all the thousands of people getting hurt by this dysfunctional joke of a government.

A part of me believes this is more feature and less bug of the government. "Blame the disfunction, not the leadership thats elected every 2 years".

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#208

Post by maxerickson »

School-Cotton wrote: post #70
tmountain wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executive branch is overpowered partially because the senate refuses to do its job. The original intent was for the senate to be slower moving and "cool" house legislation leading to slower moving governing structures. Over time, the executive branch was given additional power to "get stuff done", and we find ourselves in the situation we have today.

> the senate refuses to do its job It's not really the Senate's fault. Opposition parties almost never vote with government parties in any democratic legislature, so you shouldn't expect them to in the US. The real problem is the outdated system that is set up to (1) only allow two major parties to exist, so a European-style coalition government isn't possible, and (2) require both major parties to agree in order to…

You are assuming the premise that following their party is doing their job.

That's horseshit.

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#209

Post by ploxiln »

WalterBright wrote: post #188
throwawaygh wrote: post #182

I'm not relieved. Or, only partially relieved. One of the core arguments was that the Feds can't pull funds for their stated purpose, which was to encourage/force schools to open ("The government has provided no reason for its abrupt and unexplained shift. That is unsurprising, since... its purpose—as expressed by Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli—is to 'encourage schools to reopen.' In esse…

The federal government did use the threat of withdrawal of highway funds to get all 50 states to lower the speed limit to 55.

I'm not sure about that, I've seen many states with 65mph and 75mph highway speed limits ... but you might be thinking about the drinking age, which was raised to 21 years in all states by withdrawing highway funds if they did not pass such laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_...

Re: U.S. backs down in fight with Harvard, MIT over student visas

#210

Post by turndown »

generationP wrote: post #139
ngngngng wrote: post #104

A well known religious University near me just started offering "in person" (wink wink) classes where attendance would not be taken. I was proud to see it.

Actually, most universities don't take attendance. It's a waste of time, it punishes pro-social behavior (there is no good reason for people feeling sick to go to class), and it's infantilizing. "Attendance required" often means "we will notice if you never attend, and then will feel less bad failing you if you don't do your homework either".

I have only just graduated and attendance was regularly taken and part of our grade in some instances(CS degree.)
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