German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving • Hacker News Board

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#431

Post by ashtonkem » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

awad wrote: post #208

nemothekid wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, and I also adore the cars, my next car will likely be a Tesla and I own the stock. I've spent a lot of time researching the company so I didn't come to this conclusion by being bitter over the company. I think it's important to point out that the success of the company is largely built on the mythos of the man rather than the objective success of the cars. Tesla, earlier this week reached a market cap exceedi…

This isn't a comment on the advertising but I am struck by how Tesla and Elon Musk remind me of Apple and Steve Jobs. Both very divisive companies and leaders prone to downright emotional attacks from one side and staunch defense by the other. While has been quite a bit of hyperbole, overselling, and straight up failure to deliver, you can't dispute that both pushed their respective industries forward almost singleha…

Tales of both men’s greatness diminish rapidly the closer one got to them too.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Post by rsynnott » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:22 PM UTC

cjhopman wrote: post #280

LoSboccacc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All Tesla cars come with Full Self Driving Capability" they even replaced - hardware to - capability to be even more ambiguous.

It is insane that that is allowed. I'm not sure if it is more or less insane that there are Tesla fans that would defend that.

Well, per the article, it is NOT allowed, at least in Germany. I have been kind of amazed how hands off the advertising and road safety regulators have been with Tesla so far, tho.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#433

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:26 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #241

jacquesm wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump started out with 100's of millions. Musk started off significantly lower on the ladder.

I thought the narrative was a $1 million dollar loan from his father? Do you have a source for "100's of millions"? Sure, a $1 million dollar loan from family is pretty generous, and an amazing starting place - certainly not a "from nothing" tale. However, it's not outlandish money for a business loan to a top-rated business school graduate with extensive industry experience either. I'd also wager if you gave most pe…

> I thought the narrative was a $1 million dollar loan from his father?

A few thoughts: there are other sources that say there were significant other inputs, up to and including someone going to a Trump casino and buying $3.5M in chips and not playing. And there's the inflation value - a $1M loan in the 1960s is a lot more than $1M now.

> business loan to a top-rated business school graduate

Numerous people (including the faculty at said business school) have said that Trump was the worst student they'd ever seen, and at least one has made the claim that if it weren't for significant donations, Trump would never have graduated.

> I'd also wager if you gave most people $1 million dollars, they would not turn it into billions within their lifetime.

Quite possibly true. But in Trump's case he could have done absolutely nothing with the money he inherited and relied on earned interest and be richer than he is now.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:29 PM UTC

dlp211 wrote: post #416

toomuchtodo wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And which automaker has the largest market cap in the world currently? Not Jeep.

And, so what?

The market deems Tesla (and their approach) of higher value.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

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Post by rsynnott » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:30 PM UTC

Vysero wrote: post #64

croes wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't he claim the same last year and the year before?

Really? You're guna bet against Elon Musk? You really think that's wise? XD

On Musk claiming level five any day now, like he has been doing for the last five years or so? Seems not unreasonable.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#436

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:30 PM UTC

WA wrote: post #226

dkonofalski wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's dangerous, necessarily, unless you ignore people's personal responsibility in the situation as well. As currently designed, "Autopilot" requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel, provide rotational counter-weight on it, and you have to agree to safety and attention disclaimers before you can even enable the features. Yes, there are absolutely misconceptions that may happen with the gene…

Tesla’s own website mentions Autopilot and full self-driving capabilities on the same page. Just go and configure a car and see if anyone could ever misunderstand Autopilot in that context. Add a bunch of cool YouTube videos of people presumably sleeping on the wheel. Add a CEO who claims "car can run nightly errands soon" and "level 5 very soon" (by redefining level 5) and you easily have the currenct perception.

It's like the Summon feature. "Will come to you across the parking lot with no intervention while you deal with a fussing child".

Must have vision of vehicle at all times. Must maintain one finger on dead man's switch on phone. Vehicle owner must not be distracted.

(Oh, and it may well drive through your half-opened garage door because there's no sensors at that height, and nothing could ever go wrong with a garage door, right?)

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#437

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:33 PM UTC

catalogia wrote: post #363

ogre_codes wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In contrast, Telsa "autopilot" requires constant vigilance since you might have to take over without any warning. Neither version eliminates the need for the pilot/ driver to cease situational control. Pilots have absolutely flown into the side of mountains while on autopilot. (Ironically called "Controlled flight into terrain"). The big difference between the two is in an aircraft there is less to collide with whe…

With a typical aircraft autopilot, the pilot is allowed to take their hands off the controls. Tesla's manual quite clearly forbids that.

> Tesla's manual quite clearly forbids that.

Now. It used to only require you to touch the steering wheel for 1 second every 15 minutes.

Until regulators clamped down on that as grossly inadequate.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#438

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:35 PM UTC

dlivingston wrote: post #141

While the average non-Tesla owner might be confused on phrases like “autopilot”, any Tesla owner is very aware of its capabilities and shortcomings. When you first purchase your Tesla and are beginning the setup process, you’re presented with multiple warning screens like this: https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/autostee... That’s an old image: I couldn’t find the current warning screen on Google Ima…

So, after you buy the thing, it helpfully informs you that the advertising was bollocks? Seems like an excellent reason to ban the advertising.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#439

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:37 PM UTC

billfor wrote: post #95

I wonder how many people complaining about Tesla's marketing actually have a Tesla. The car clearly makes you acknowledge that the driver is responsible before using any Autopilot/FSD capability, and if you bought the car with the expectation that it didn't , you have a return period to get your money back in full. It doesn't matter if they said it would take you to the moon and back. If you test drive or buy it and…

So, on that basis, all false advertising should be legal provided the manufacture includes a ‘yeah, we made that up, this is actually a toaster, not a time machine’ pamphlet?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#440

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:38 PM UTC

patd wrote: post #119

elandrum wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sure does get them a lot of attention though! My Jeep Cherokee has lane assist, adaptive cruise control, auto-parking, and crash detection (emergency braking) but they don’t get all this press about it.

Maybe because it’s not the same ? I don’t own a Jeep but Lane assist typically means warning the user if you drive over the line. Tesla steers by itself and more. Adaptive Cruise Control typically works only above a given speed. Tesla’s does work at low speed too. At least Tesla cars seem to do more than the German cars I have driven before.

Right, but by the same token there's also a reality distortion field where some Tesla owners believe that they have functionality that no-one else does.

I have had multiple people tell me about how revolutionary Tesla's blind spot warning system is, because it's adaptive to relative speeds, and not "just a dumb sensor like everyone else's".

Except even my entry level 2015 Audi has it. Car in your blind spot or just behind that's at your speed, or slower? Warning time is adjusted accordingly. Sit in traffic while cars whiz by you in the HOV lane? It accounts for the massive speed differential and alerts you far earlier.

But somehow at least some Tesla owners think that "no-one but Tesla does this".