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German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

mobile.reuters.com

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Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#381

Post by dlp211 »

DenisM wrote: post #248
dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

In aviation the auto-pilot is a relatively dumb machine that must be supervised, whereas a co-pilot is a human that could be trusted with full operations of the aircraft. I find it rather droll that the common use of the words completely inverted the original meaning.

It likely inverted because vehicles don't come with two sets of steering instruments and therefore co-pilot/driver means something else in the driving world.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#382

Post by NeutronStar »

zmk_ wrote: post #49
NeutronStar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is one of definition. I don't know why people associate autopilot with a definition that isn't autopilot. An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilot does not replace human operators. Instead, autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus o…

Because it is being sold to customers in a different context. Autopilot for planes does not need to take into account other planes (flight paths are separated) to the same degree as cars do (where other "obstacles" constantly zip next to you).

So business should be forced to put the definition of words they use as source now?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#383

Post by maxharris »

catalogia wrote: post #369
maxharris wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you watch the video? Waymo is stuck using lidar, and the video explains why that's a dead-end. (Want to keep in touch about this bet? I'm maxharris9 on twitter.)

I skimmed the video. It's doing what I expected, knocking down a goofy strawman of LIDAR-only while ignoring the obvious camera/LIDAR sensor fusion. The depth map Tesla is getting from stereoscopic vision is pretty shoddy; sensor fusion with LIDAR is the obvious solution. The reason Telsa resists this is because they want to market their cars as having all the requisite hardware and acknowledging the usefulness of LI…

Hmm, looks like Tesla actually does do sensor fusion, just not with lidar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19803817

I also think that being so cynical about Tesla's motives is pretty short-sighted from an investment perspective. In the long-term, they don't win if they don't get this right.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#384

Post by NeutronStar »

rzzzt wrote: post #41
NeutronStar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is one of definition. I don't know why people associate autopilot with a definition that isn't autopilot. An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilot does not replace human operators. Instead, autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus o…

The answer is "Knight Rider".

So you take your definitions from movies now?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#385

Post by LeChuck »

drcross wrote: post #186
JJMcJ wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But autopilot is explicitly a term for hands off operation. In general, in driving, things happen too fast for any control assist system to allow hands off driving. EDIT: Any existing control assist system And I don't think we are that close, since "self driving cars" still seem to be limited to "driving at 25 MPH around Mountain View and Sunnyvale where the curbs and streets have been pre-mapped to within inches".

>But autopilot is explicitly a term for hands off operation. I see you've never skippered a boat.

I have. Lots of them, all over the world. On every ship I've worked on the track pilot is used for hands off operation. Hell, some guys would do paperwork or work on stowage plans during their watch.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#386

Post by jacquesm »

mathdev wrote: post #274
jacquesm wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/d...

You cannot really trust a source as biased as NYT on anything about Trump.

Classic ad hominem. They write an article, list their sources and you dismiss it out of hand because of which entity wrote the article. Surely you can do better than that?

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#388

Post by maxharris »

Dahoon wrote: post #361
maxharris wrote: post #345

If you actually believe that Tesla will fail to deliver full self-driving in the coming years, I have two questions. 1. have you watched this entire technical presentation made by Andrej Karpathy, Senior Director of AI at Tesla? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx7BXih7zx8 2. if you understand what you've seen in that video, why do you think Tesla will fail?

For one because they said it would be here already but they keep moving the goal post.

Yeah, but that's how every single thing that Elon Musk does is.

I followed all those failures at SpaceX before they landed the first booster, or the Model 3 intro, or fairing catches, or the original Model S. These things all took a lot longer than you'd expect from his comments, but they all happened!

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#389

Post by maxharris »

detaro wrote: post #376
maxharris wrote: post #345

If you actually believe that Tesla will fail to deliver full self-driving in the coming years, I have two questions. 1. have you watched this entire technical presentation made by Andrej Karpathy, Senior Director of AI at Tesla? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx7BXih7zx8 2. if you understand what you've seen in that video, why do you think Tesla will fail?

What's "the coming years"? 5 years after they first made the claim? 5 years from now? 5 years from 5 years from now?

2024. Cathie Wood's bull case for everything going right for Tesla is 24k/share in 2024. She also breaks out everything else, shows what happens to the share price if autonomy doesn't happen, or if they don't keep building gigafactories, etc.

Re: German court bans Tesla ad statements related to autonomous driving

#390

Post by darkerside »

dkonofalski wrote: post #3

I agree with this wholeheartedly, even as a Tesla owner. Tesla goofed from the beginning by calling tech like "Autosteer" and "Traffic Assisted Cruise Control" under the moniker "Autopilot" while shifting everything above that to "Full Self-Driving". They should have called it "CoPilot" since that infers that you're still the driver in charge of controlling the vehicle and it would have had exactly the same reception…

What I've realized is that Elon Musk simply puts less value on individual human lives than most others do. I don't mean that quite as harshly as it comes off, but it does seem that Elon likely believes the world would be a better place if all of the "dumbest" people were allowed to get themselves killed, allowing the rest of the human race to move forward. He may have a point, but I can't go down that path with him.
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