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Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

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Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#221

Post by gojomo »

saagarjha wrote: post #212
gojomo wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also say, 'Liberty', 'In God We Trust', & 'E Pluribus Unum'. Lots of writing on government-issued materials is false, ceremonial, outdated, or overridden by later acts. If it really bothers you, you can file that off your pennies before spending them at 5¢ value. We won't mind.

I would check 18 U.S. Code §331 (fraudulently defacing currency) before doing that.

There would be no fraud in scratching 'ONE CENT' off of pennies that were, by law, worth 5¢.

But also, when was the last prosecution for defacing a coin in the United States?

What sort of monster would call the police on a fellow person for passing a damaged penny?

How would the prosecution's burden of proof be met?

(Be a currency hacker, like Satoshi or Woz – https://hackaday.com/2012/08/03/woz-prints-and-spend-his-own... – not someone whose actions are limited by obscure dead-letter laws.)

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#222

Post by undersuit »

irrational wrote: post #188

But then how would we make souvenir flattened pennies for .26 at tourist traps? Seriously, I haven’t used cash in so many years that I literally can’t remember the last time I touched paper money or coins. Maybe 15 years ago? As far as I’m concerned, we’ve already transitioned to a 100% digital economy and there is no longer a need for analog money.

The US Mints could just sell blanks to the tourist traps and they in turn could raise the price to $1.

I use cash all the time. I like to round out my errands with a beer at a brewery before biking home. Hand the server a $5 bill when I get the beer, so fast also a strong tip on the cheapest beers. I'm also forced to use cash when I purchase my medical marijuana. I drink Americanos when I purchase a coffee, $2 or $2.25 is pretty reasonable but I sometimes can get the exact change for a place charging $2.15.

I think digital and physical money has it's uses and I will use cash in my wallet first because any phone or credit card solution is slower.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#223

Post by gojomo »

SamBam wrote: post #208
ebg13 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best plan is to re-base all pennies to be worth 5¢ But they say "ONE CENT" on them.

I assume they would be redeemable at banks for nickels.

And payable to any establishment that accepted traditional nickels as well.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#224

Post by einpoklum »

michaelt wrote: post #104
einpoklum wrote: post #25

I really like it that they offer you, instead of a site with a lot of junk and JS, a plain text version! That's much nicer news than the story itself :-) ... that said - why _don't_ you guys cancel the penny? > Penny defenders' strongest argument was that eliminating it would hurt consumers. All those $9.99 products? The prices would be jacked up to an even $10! That sounds like an argument made up retroactively to t…

> That sounds like an argument made up retroactively to try to justify something. Seriously? If the latest console game rises from $79.99 to $80.00 it's a trivial increase, I agree. A hundredth of a percentage point. But if a loaf of bread rises from $0.99 to $1.00 it's increased by an entire 1% - resulting in a noticeable impact on food price inflation. And when your inflation rate is around 0%-2% before, even a qua…

I call straw man.

1. Loaves of bread don't go for $0.99 ; see an example survey here: https://costaide.com/loaf-bread-cost/

2. You can get bread at different units of weight.

2. A $0.09 item would rise by a full 10%! Terrible, right? ... not when you ask yourself "How many of those do I actually buy?"

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#225

Post by undersuit »

ThePadawan wrote: post #6

I moved from a country that has pennies (Germany, so EUR cents) to one that doesn't (Switzerland, CHF) age 18. The smallest coin is 0.05CHF. It's still worth enough that you might use a handful of them to make change for a small amount like, say, 0.40CHF. Grocery prices either have a resolution of 0.05CHF (all major retailers) or if not, your bill will be rounded to a resolution 0.05CHF to the customers advantage (e.…

I guess the question is... do you feel good about wasting one, two, three, and four?

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#226

Post by Cactus2018 »

In the Netherlands

> In 1980, production of the 1-cent coin ceased and was demonetized three years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_guilder#Coins

> In 1999 replaced by the Euro, and gained 1-cent and 2-cent coins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_euro_cent_coin

The one- and two-cent coins were initially introduced in order to ensure that the introduction of the euro was not used as an excuse by retailers to heavily round up prices. However, due to the cost to business and the mints of maintaining a circulation of low value coins, Belgium, Finland, Ireland, Italy and the Netherlands round prices to the nearest five cents (Swedish rounding) for cash payments, producing only a handful of those coins for collectors rather than general circulation.[3] Despite this, the coins are still legal tender and produced outside these states, so if a customer with a two-cent coin minted elsewhere wishes to pay with it, they may.[4]

The Dutch Bank calculated it would save $36 million a year by not using the smaller coins. According to a Eurobarometer survey of EU citizens, 64% across the Eurozone want their removal with prices rounded; with over 70% in Belgium, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands and Slovakia.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#227

Post by Bjartr »

saagarjha wrote: post #212
gojomo wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also say, 'Liberty', 'In God We Trust', & 'E Pluribus Unum'. Lots of writing on government-issued materials is false, ceremonial, outdated, or overridden by later acts. If it really bothers you, you can file that off your pennies before spending them at 5¢ value. We won't mind.

I would check 18 U.S. Code §331 (fraudulently defacing currency) before doing that.

Unless you are committing fraud, like falsely trying to claim it has a value other than what it actually does, defacing currency isn't illegal. So trying to pass off a penny as being worth 5 cents today by filing it down would violate that law, but if they really were worth 5 cents, it would be fine.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#228

Post by refurb »

gregjor wrote: post #198
refurb wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has lived on both sides of the border, my theory is that Canadians are just less politically active. I can remember major bills coming for vote and sure, you'd see a few news articles, but rarely did it become entrenched in daily discussion. I actually liked the US approach when I first arrived - "how great! everyone is passionate about politics!". I find it somewhat draining now. There is almost no pa…

I wonder why my immigrant friends get so passionate about American politics. I find it mostly boring. I think you’re not describing real political passion or engagement, though — Americans can get quite worked up about politics but we’re not all that engaged, or passionate enough to lobby for real change. Politics serve as signs of tribal affiliation and self-identity, and sometimes as a way to bludgeon other people.…

I found it interested because so little of it happened in Canada. But yes, I mistook it for real political involvement, but you're right, it's mostly banter. That said, I would say more Americans are at least aware of the political issue of the day, where in Canada many people just didn't care.

My other pet theory is that Canadians get more than enough politics from Canadian coverage of US politics (it's often 30%+ of news coverage) so they feel little urge to do the same with domestic politics.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#229

Post by missedthecue »

jdhawk wrote: post #189
lostapathy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the reasons are so obvious. Surely very little metal is turned into pennies compared to the quantities consumed by industrial processes.

last year they made 8.4BN pennies, which would be about 21 million KG of Zinc, worth about ~$40 million?

If their profit margin is around 8% or so, which I assume would be reasonable for mining & industrial firms, that's a really small amount and not worth the lobbying cost

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#230

Post by saalweachter »

Asooka wrote: post #84

There is a much simpler solution. Obviously people want their "0.01" coin, so we should instead envalue the currency. Cancel the dollar, make dollar2.0 which is exactly 10 times as valuable and done. You eliminate everything below 10cents effectively, the metal industry is happy to supply material for new coins, coin collectors are happy to get new coins, banks are delighted to make a bit of profit skimming a few dol…

If you envalue by 100:1 you could probably start making silver dimes, quarters and dollars again.
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